Here is our next in the Lauren Salzman series. And if you thought you had heard it all with group blow jobs, or Keith hiding like a coward in a closet while Lauren had machines guns pointed at her heard, think again.
This is not over yet.
Lauren is being examined by AUSA Tanya Hajjar in the trial of Keith Alan Raniere. The date is May 21, 2019.
In this exquisite little excerpt from her testimony, we get a little more info on Raniere’s quest for a virgin successor and her champion enabler, Lauren Salzman.
He told the DOS First Line women that he wanted a successor – and that she must be a virgin. They believed this – that he needed this on some mystical level; that on some supernatural level that the virgin could live for Raniere channeling his spirit after he died.
And that may have been the case, maybe that is just what he was looking for – although I rather strongly suspect that he was not looking for a virgin successor; he just wanted a virgin. To deflower.
Q Ms. Salzman, you testified that at some point while you were at DOS, you had been told a story about how DOS began.
A Yes.
Q What did that involve?
A That I had understood that DOS began surrounding Cami’s suicide attempt and that as part of ensuring that she would never do that again, she was asked to collateralize her life and that that was especially effective, and what I had understood was that Daniella, who was helping her, made the decision to do that as well and then they invited friends.
Q Daniella Padilla?
A Yeah, that’s what I had thought.
Q As you understood it, was Camila the first DOS slave?
A Yes.
Q You testified, Ms. Salzman, that Camilia was the youngest sister of Daniela and Mariana, right?
A Correct, yes.
Q You testified that you were upset to hear of Mariana’s pregnancy. Do you know what Camila’s reaction to the pregnancy was?
A It was very — it was especially upsetting and devastating to Cami. She told me that — that she had shared with — that she told Keith —
Keith Raniere’s attorney Marc Agnifilo: I will object to this, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. HAJJAR:
Q Did you have a conversation with the defendant [Raniere] about his relationship with Camila?
A I had a discussion with Keith about Cami’s reaction to Mariana’s pregnancy.
Q And what did the defendant say about Camila’s reaction to Mariana’s pregnancy?
A That she always knew this was an option. When she made the Vow, he had told her this was always a possibility.
Q That what was always a possibility?
A That Mariana might have a baby — that he might have a baby with Mariana.
Q And before she made the vow, what did you understand him to be referring to?
A To DOS. Like, when she agreed to be his slave and be fully collateralized in this Vow, she had known ahead of time that there was a possibility that he might have a child with Mariana and that she said she wanted to do this anyway.
Q Did Camila become aware of the pregnancy after you did?
A Yes, after.
Q Did you continue to see Camila at meetings of the first line DOS masters after this announcement?
A To me or to her?
Q Did you continue to see her at meetings?
A After — after when?
Q Well, why don’t you describe your observations of her at meetings as time progressed in DOS.
A I think in the early days when I — when I — my early days of my enrollment in DOS — and I had heard that Cami was kind of new to being a part of that group, but I found her much more engaged and enthusiastic, she was more connective with me and happier; and then after she found out about Mariana, it was very hard and she was not the same and she started talking about wanting to go back to Mexico and wasn’t sure she wanted to stay.
Q Did she, in fact, at some point, go to Mexico?
A She did, yes.
Q At some point after January 2017, did you have a conversation with the defendant about a successor?
A I did, yes.
Q What did he tell you?
A He told me that as long as he had been alive he had always had something called a successor and a witness, and this was the first time in his life that he didn’t have people in those roles because Pam had died and, for some reason, Cami wasn’t the successor. My understanding — I thought it was because of the suicide attempt, and he didn’t know if he was going to be living, like, that he — he didn’t know if he had a purpose anymore, like, he might — his life purpose might have ended without this.
Q When the defendant said he had two roles, the witness and the successor —
A Yeah.
Q — what did you understand that — him to be referring to?
A I didn’t know what they meant and I didn’t really ask any questions about them. I just thought that it was some kind of, you know, mystical or energy thing that I didn’t understand, and even for me it seemed very out there, but I didn’t have any way to prove that it wasn’t true, and if that was something that he believed in, I wanted to respect that he believed that this was a valid thing.
Q You mentioned two —
A It was weird for me. I didn’t understand it, but…
Q You mentioned Pamela Cafritz and Camila. What roles did those two individuals occupy in this concept as it was explained to you?
A That Pam had been the witness and Cami had been the successor.
Q Do you have any understanding as to what that meant?
A I really don’t know what the witness was. I mean, it was never explained to me, but later my first-line DOS masters communicated that the successor was somebody who — had to be somebody who was a virgin and that they were looking to find a replacement for Cami, and then Nicki [Clyne] later shared that Cami had had another relationship and that was why she wasn’t the successor anymore.
Q What was the purpose of the virgin successor?
A Honestly, I don’t really understand. Rosa Laura [Junco] tried to explain something to me once that I didn’t understand.
AGNIFILO: Objection.
THE COURT: Yes, the jury will disregard the answer.
BY MS. HAJJAR:
Q Did you speak to the first line DOS masters about efforts to find a successor for the defendant?
A Yes. They told me that there had been efforts to find a successor.
Q Who told you that there had been efforts to find a successor?
A I believe Daniella and Loreta [Garza] and Rosa Laura.
Q That was Daniella Padilla and Loreta Garza?
A Yes.
Q From the other first-line DOS masters, did you learn more about what those efforts entailed?
A That Daniella and — or Loreta were exploring possibly bringing or trying to get, like, sisters or cousins or people they knew in Mexico to come to Albany.
Q To do what?
A To possibly fill that role.
Q To fill what role?
A The successor role.
Q Did you learn from them what the requirements to fill the successor role were?
A Nothing beyond that they were a virgin.
Q Did Rosa Laura Junco explain what the point of a successor was to you — the purpose?
AGNIFILO: I’m going to object, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
A That she thought somehow it was, like, a person that would be so close to Keith that he would be able to, like, experience things through them, and I didn’t know if she meant — I couldn’t conceptualize what she was talking about, whether she meant experience things through them currently or experience things through them, like, if he were to die, he would be able to still experience things through them while they were still here, and I couldn’t make sense of what she was saying.
Q Did Rosa Laura express concern to you at any point about these efforts to find a successor?
A Yes.
Q Can you explain what her concerns were?
A She was concerned that — she ran a girls’ program for teenage girls, an educational program, and she was concerned that communications she had with Keith about the successor may somehow link the girls’ program to that.
Q Can you explain what you knew about the girls’ program?
A That it was a school for girls that — I think it started for Rosa Laura’s daughter and then other girls from Mexico were brought, mostly from the LeBaron community, to participate in an educational program that Rosa Laura was running.
Q Brought where?
A To Albany where they came, you know, they were enrolled.
Q What were they supposed to do here? What were they supposed —
A Study. Study. It was school. It was — it was a girls’ school.
Q Affiliated with NXIVM?
A Yes.
**********************************
Ah, Keith, his stories are wonderful: DOS was started to help Cami, to make sure she did not commit suicide, not to enslave women into a sex cult to serve him. Beautiful, tender. He cared so much about Cami.
And Lauren believed it.
Noble Keith, always a man of his word, always expecting everyone to keep their ethical word. He had fairly told Cami that he might deny her the baby he had promised her for years because she had an affair with Robbie, [Esther Chiappone Carlson’s son]. And he had punished her for years over it.
She had considered suicide, but noble Vanguard saved her by creating DOS, but when he did, and he required her to make a life Vow to be his slave, he also told her, he said, that he might have a baby with Mariana, her sister. Nice touch.
And Lauren believed him.
And Lauren found no incongruity in her own life – that he had promised her the same thing – a baby – and had canceled it for years once just because she had engaged in some horseplay with a man at a volleyball game.
But Lauren did not question her Vanguard.
And when Rosa Laura – who was ultimately to offer her own virgin daughter to Keith for his successor – explained to Lauren that the successor must be “a person that would be so close to Keith that he would be able to experience things through [both of] them.”
Stupid Lauren said, “I didn’t know if she meant – I couldn’t conceptualize what she was talking about, whether she meant experience things through them currently or experience things through them, if he were to die.”
She couldn’t understand and evidently did not ask if he would be able to experience things while he was still alive or after death.
[I will take a moment to answer the question of whether Keith planned on experiencing things with a virgin while she was still alive – the answer is he was planning to give her an experience alright the first moment he got her alone.]
“I couldn’t make sense of what she was saying,” said Lauren.
Really, in order to say this, she must have been willfully blind or lying on the witness stand.
I think this is revealing. For Lauren understood much of what she wanted to understand and only some of what she did not want to understand. She knew it was possible that Keith might have meant to have something beyond the grave with his virgin successor, but she also knew that he wanted something from his virgin right now.
Notably absent – although Rosa Laura suggests it with her concern about her school for the little LeBaron girls – is any discussion about the virgin successor being under the legal age of consent.
There is a good reason. By deductive reasoning, it is clear that all of them, Loreta, Cami, Rosa Laura, Nicki, Allison, Lauren – all of them knew that the virgin was going to be under the age of consent.
I submit Lauren had no problem with this. I submit Lauren knew that he had sex with underage girls before. I believe they all knew and had no problem finding him another virgin to rape.
This time, they would call her his “successor.”
The only question I have is, did Lauren really think that a virgin successor was to be just one girl? that Keith was really just looking for one virgin?
Or were they all, wittingly or unwittingly, on the hunt for as many virgins as they could find – the younger the better? Did Lauren know that? Is that why she did not really question Rosa Laura to find out more of what she really meant?
Lauren clearly had no problem with Keith seeking a virgin. And let’s be blunt. Where was he going to find any virgin who was not underage? Did Lauren really expect that the search would be limited to virgin girls over the age of 17?
No, it was understood that the virgin was going to be under the age of consent. Nobody had a problem with that including Lauren. By this time, they had been well indoctrinated into the teachings that society made children the victims of sex with adults, not the adults who had sex with children.
Lauren accepted it.
Perhaps Tanya Hajjar should have probed Lauren – Did you know the virgin successor might be underage?
But that might have made Lauren unsympathetic to the jury and the role for Lauren was to make Raniere look bad, not herself, for her devious support of him.
I love Lauren’s stupidly confusing answer about what she understood about the virgin successor and whether it had some deeper mystical purpose than her tiny brain could understand and so no, it was not, not to her, just Keith wanting to fuck children.
She said “I didn’t really ask any questions about them. I just thought that it was some kind of, you know, mystical or energy thing that I didn’t understand, and even for me it seemed very out there, but I didn’t have any way to prove that it wasn’t true, and if that was something that he believed in, I wanted to respect that he believed that this was a valid thing.”
Yeah, a very valid thing, mystical and energetic – a 57-year-old man who wanted a 13 or 15-year-old virgin girl and for Lauren: “I didn’t have any way to prove that it wasn’t true, and if that was something that he believed in, I wanted to respect that he believed that this was a valid thing.”
Yeah, Lauren, you had no way to prove it wasn’t true?
How hard did you try?
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Or were they all, knowingly or unwittingly, in the search for as many virgins as they could find: the younger, the better? Lauren knew it? Is that why you didn’t really ask Rosa Laura to know more about what she really wanted to say?
Lauren clearly had no problem with Keith looking for a virgin. And let’s be frank. Where would I find a virgin who was not a minor? Did Lauren really expect the search to be limited to virgin girls over 17?
No, it was understood that the virgin was going to be a minor. No one had a problem with that, even Lauren. By then, they had been well indoctrinated in the teachings that society turned children into victims of sex with adults, not adults who had sex with children.
Frank, I think that although you have a good point here, you are making assumptions, based on your feeling about it and not really on evidence, I say it because until now all the information that you have published yourself tells us that TWO had a tube at its best 150 women, if at that number we subtract the 8 frontline women, and the Canadian and Mexican women, we only have the US women, of which most lived in Albany and were part of the harem long before the existence of DOS. So how is it that if they were looking for a virgin or underage virgins, everything we know about DOS says that they were adult women, so at what time they were looking for minor virgins, and how is it that there are no indications of them, I also believe that the level of compartmentalization that KAR handled in the group of women and especially the sinuous way of implanting ideas in the minds of his followers, especially women, was subvestimas, my opinion is that he did not ask for a minor virgin and he gave no indication that that was what he wanted at least not all of them, Camila according to the messages shown in court was more dedicated to this work, but I think what KAR wanted were mainly a person who was his successor and for that needed something more than a virgin to have sex, he needed a way to work on that person and mold it in his image, according to the messages shown in court he no longer considered Camila the ideal person for to that and I didn’t think I had the energy to start from scratch with another person, I think that DOS was their own machine to make minions and flying monkeys, but I couldn’t trust them to create a successor and only trusted someone who formed sex from the beginning, but I could not trust that women would recruit a minor virgin to give it to him, that would be like openly acknowledging before all of them that he is a pedophile, I think he was confident of creating a very large group in DOS too so introducing lesser virgins would be based on some kind of ritual that would give a different approach to their followers, and do that with a high number of indoctrinated and obedient women, but also with a compartmentalized knowledge, it would be more fascinating to do things hidden from the majority of the group, in the harem and the inner circle he only had people with different levels of blind confession in him and, therefore, useful for different purposes, but in DOS, he believed he could create a system that would sustain itself even if he was gone.
So Pam Cafritz was called “the witness”.
It sounds like Pam was a “voyeur” who got off by watching Raniere and whatever woman he was doing at the time.
NXIVM’s kinkiness has no bounds.
===it was understood that the virgin was going to be under the age of consent===
It’s been rumored that was the purpose of Girls By Design==but Lauren neven mentioned it, so it looks like the rumor was all BS
To be objective, given what we now know it seems likely that Raniere was planning for all the various efforts like that to ultimately funnel some young women to him. One of the glaring inconsistencies that reveal what his and NXIVM’s real focus was, is that there were no similar efforts made towards boys or young men.
GBD was just another failed dead end – along with OneAsian, and various others. Someone as relatively high up as Salzman may well not have known or realized what Raniere’s intentions were, and those directly involved further down almost certainly didn’t.
Frank, I don’t think we have proof that Camila is still in DOS. I think she should be treated as a victim. All the emails, chat messages, testimony seems to say Keith was trafficking her.
This story was all about how she wanted to escape and I think it hints how her family was recruited into Nxivm (getting virgin sisters )
Maybe we should stop posting her pictures? Shouldn’t we give victims a break?
How do we know she is a victim? The last time I spoke with her sister, which was admittedly many months ago, she was still in. No one has told me otherwise.
If she is still in, then she will be expected to be recruiting. She was thinking of leaving, but as she has so many times in the past, she only thought about leaving but did not go – and actually searched for virgins for Raniere. Now, as I understand it, she is working under Jack Levy, Mexican leader. As long as she is in Nxivm, I think she – like Nicki Clyne, Michele Hatchette, Samantha LeBaron, Jim Del Negro, Edgar Boone, Vanessa Sahagun, Omar Boone, Loreta, Jimena, Carola Garza, and others should be named.
I have stopped naming people who have come to me and told me, assured me and proved to me they were out.
Thank you for clarifying and taking the time to explain.
Actually sorry for bringing this up because I just realized it is giving bad actors visibility and spinning it to give them empathy (not sure everyone will see your clarification comment) Is it possible to remove these comments? Sorry for taking up your time.
Best of luck in everything, Frank. Sorry and thank you
How does someone prove to you that they were out? Do you have a cutoff date for when people leaving the sex cult get a pass?
From what he said, it seems they just have to write to him. I think that I don’t know. These women are in a very tough position. Because I think emailing frank would be difficult by itself to tell him they are free and no longer in the cult. I think it would be better to go after the main bad actors like Claire or Junco, instead of discussing the little guys like Camila. Who seem to be more victims. But it is not black and white. I have very strong feelings and I don’t know what is best 🙁
I like your voice a lot, Mexican Lady, you seem kind, strong and balanced.
Excellent expose on Lauren Salzman.
I find the idea of a group of adult women searching for an underage virgin [for a 58 year old man] deeply disturbing.
It was “way out there” — even for Lauren’s Mom, Nancy Sleazeman — 32 years ago, when Nancy prounounced Keith “delusional.”
And, even then, you’d be hard pressed to find a Virgin over 18.
Didn’t stop Nancy or her sleazy spawn or Kristin Keeffe or any of the original sinners from cashing in on the monster’s “out there” madness, for 3 decades, did it?
Nope, not statutory rape, not billionaire fleecings, not fraud, not insurgencies against the US, not brandings, blackmail, not framing, not psychotic episodes, not suicidings — nothing comes between a Sleazeman and their sleaze.
So, what’s so far out about the Virgin successor all of the sudden?
Go ahead, btw, and keep hacking at me. What’s the ruination of the life of an innocent disabled child?
Great points, Heidi
I think the witness and succ-sucker, I mean successor, are the same person. First they have to witness the wisdom of Ranier, then they can succeed him as the new NXIVM “leader.”
such wise words coming from an Amway salesman. LOL
Now you are protecting Scott? Edit edit…
😉
Salzman claims here not to have really understood or appreciated Raniere’s metaphysical and mystical mumbo-jumbo – from her testimony, her beliefs were limited to some notion of Raniere’s genetic superiority, and that presumably a child of his would have special advantages from the general environment of his mentoring and of being raised in Rainbow Cultural Garden. However, “Monte Blue,” if they’re not a troll, has bought into a version of it that is positively religious – or at least may be describing the viewpoint of some true believers.
So now I’m really curious now as to whether there is an aspect of this that some of the inner circle bought in to, that hasn’t really been reported. Did Raniere’s harem or others view him as some sort of demigod, or a “godman” similar to Nithyananda?
Witness and successor – sounds like his own warped version of Madonna-whore complex. Playing semantics with psychology concepts and claiming them as original technology.
I’d say Karen U was probably his “witness” until Pam C surpassed her in that category. And once he claimed a virgin, they started their descent into the whore category. So he’d need the next virgin in line as his “successor.” He just wallowed in his mental aberrations, didn’t he – with lots of help and support in creating the perfect sty for himself.
I know we’re into “humane” incarceration now, but where’s a good oubliette when you really need one.
=============================
Frank says: —- “And let’s be blunt. Where was he going to find any virgin who was not underage? Did Lauren really expect that the search would be limited to virgin girls over the age of 17?”
=============================
I guess Frank has never heard of a little thing called UTAH or LDS.
Most Mormons do not engage in ungodly fornication until they are married.
It’s very rare for a Mormon family to have sluts & whores for daughters who bang men, before they are married.
It does happen of course, but only for the most LOWLY and UNPRINCIPLED Mormon families.
Thus, Frank has not proven that Lauren ‘knew’ anything. Lauren likely wanted to recruit adult women from UTAH and LDS.
Try again, Frank.
=============================
Frank says: —- “I submit Lauren knew that he had sex with underage girls before.”
=============================
Well, Frank, according to your pal Heidi, she also knew that Keith had bedded an underage girl before, specifically her own sister (but didn’t disclose this fact to the public until many years later).
Why does Heidi get a free pass from your scorn, yet you condemn Lauren for it?
Kristin Keeffe knew all of that and more, yet she also gets a free pass from your scorn.
Try again, Frank.
Frank is now throwing the kitchen sink at Lauren.
I’m beginning to think that Frank may have attempted to contact Lauren secretly (for an interview) and she turned him down.
Why do I think that?
Cuz his hatred towards Lauren FAR exceeds his hatred towards everybody else in NXIVM (including Keith) —- judging by the number of articles he dedicates to hating Lauren.
Lauren is a lovely woman. I submit that — if she would only get plastic surgery to fix her ridiculously huge/ugly nose — she’ll be able to find a suitable husband and move on with her life post-NXIVM.
Question for Frank…
Do you acknowledge that Lauren did more to bring down Keith than everybody else, including your pal Heidi?
If so, why hate on her so much?
Have a nice day.
Frank is doing stories on Salzman because she gave the most, and the most impactive, testimony. Take it easy, Mr. Shadow. Frank still thinks Mack is worse, so take it easy, big guy! LOL
Bangkok and Salzman, sitting in a tree, k i s s i n g. First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in a baby carriage. LOL
Bangkok is to Salzman is what Sultan is to Kristin Crook(ed). LOL
An obvious case of racism, as we know that only white people can sexually harass others: https://www.forbes.com/sites/patriciagbarnes/2020/02/06/house-calls-us-judiciary-on-carpet-for-handling-of-sexual-harassment-by-kansas-judge/#f5d9f7b14f10 But he was a Clinton appointee, so he probably assumed he could get away with it, too.
Camila is a strong women . Very strong and a warrior.
Boone in Mexico might be sex trafficking her. How do we stop him ? Could he be prosecuted too?
Keith got stopped just in time . I am glad the prosecution showed this . He was becoming very dangerous
There are no warrior NXIVM women. They are all figments of their own imaginations. Raniere’s first line slaves couldn’t even save him from the inept Mexican law enforcement folks, something the drug cartels have no problem intimidating.
The link to any foreign (non-US) NXIVM indictments — including Boone’s — appears to have broken at the point Clare Bronfman hired “Frontier” — a company run by former US attorney, Dennis Burke, and former head of US Dept. of Homeland Security, John Sandweg — to secure the illegal immigration of Marianna Fernandez w/o Raniere having to actually wed her.
Because Marianna and other elites from Mexico, Europe and Canada were in the U.S. for so long (12 yrs. in Mariana’s case) and, at least, Burke knew about it but failed to report it when he “applied” or pushed for the favor on Clare’s behalf — after Clare prolly paid him and his co. lots of dollars to do so — if the foreigners are charged that means Burke was naughty, too.
That would mean there’s maybe a tiny bit of greasing and corruption going on in the U.S. 😲 and God knows that’s impossible bc we’re infallible and morally superior to every nation on earth and that’s why we get to blow y’all up and all.
That’s my guess as to why there’s no foreign indictments happening.
Great points, Heidi. Thank you. I think actually that Boone could be prosecuted because of the connections they have with democrats. Mexico’s new government has been friendly in giving trump’s government people in Mexico who backed Obama. Mainly because it helps them do these favors. Check out the arrests made with Genaro Garcia Luna. I think Boone could be next and I am happy 🙂
“He told the DOS First Line women that he wanted a successor – and that she must be a virgin. They believed this – that he needed this on some mystical level; that on some supernatural level that the virgin could live for Raniere channeling his spirit after he died.
And that may have been the case, maybe that is just what he was looking for – although I rather strongly suspect that he was not looking for a virgin successor; he just wanted a virgin. To deflower.”
I not only strongly suspect Raniere was looking for a virgin to deflower, I fully and absolutely believe it.
Our Noble Vanguard!
Nobody but Virgins are good enough for him.
NOBODY BUT TEEN AGE VIRGINS ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM!
The younger the better.
And his First line DOS Masters have absolutely no idea that the Vanguard is a pedophile.
Out of endless alternatives offered by a human society Raniere loved in its entirety, only untouched pussy could be held on the highest of pedestals, especially intellectually and educationally… Demographics in Raniere’s mind can be effectively summarised as follows: young cunts and the rest. A most incisive perspective. There’s no hidden pattern here obviously!
That’s because a normal woman (anyone outside of this perverted bullshit) would piss themselves laughing at the sheer stupidity of fatty fatty pervo’s game.
“There is a good reason. By deductive reasoning it is clear that all of them, Loreta, Cami, Rosa Laura, Nicki, Allison, Lauren — all of them knew that the virgin was going to be under the age of consent.”
BS…It’s obvious that only an handfull of people knew…Cami clearly stated that Allison didn’t knew the purpose of DOS…It’s in the text message.
Lauren knew because she knew about Cami’s beginning, BTW Allison was in LA when the girl arrived…
Stop trying to link her to things that are unrelated….
If this shortcut was plausible, the court itself would have made it.
You just try to pretend you understand but your “deductive reasoning” is systematically faulty as you suppose that they all knew why they did what they did…
Some (like Allison) were mentally abused to enter DOS, drugged…
A revealing thing is what Lauren said “I didn’t understand, and even for me it seemed very out there”
This revealed that she was connected to reality contrary to some of the other girls…obviously! she was doing the EM and therapeutic hypnotic sessions…
“I believe they all knew and had no problem with finding him another virgin to rape.”
And you believed many things that ended up being wrong so keep your fantasy and stick with the facts…you are not an investigator and certainly not a journalist (although you are good at twisting fact like them)
“were they all, wittingly or unwittingly”
Coercion for some , not for others…i’d say it’s 50/50…
“No, it was understood that the virgin was going to be under the age of consent”
Once again, BS…what was the age of Allison’s victim? just as a reminder?
The only point revealed here is that , once again, Is that Allison isn’t knowing but Rosa, Daniella, Lauren did…names related to several crime through time and who were fully aware of what is behind…
Cami was also aware (she was underaged when she got with him) but i doubt (seeing the answers Lauren gave) that there is any kind of “proof” of involvement in this part for most of the other girls(including Allison)…
Allison said that she was being healed…Cami confirmed she was not in the known…What more do you need to stop implying that she knew everything when major info show the contrary.
I agree that it is very complex issue . To me it is unclear that Cami is not still being sex trafficked . To me it looks like Keith was controlling her money and housing to sex traffic her. I don’t know if Boone is now doing that in Mexico . That ma should be prosecuted .
Perhaps there are no 18 year and older virgin women in New York state.
I wonder how often — and they must — how often Lauren, Sara, and the rest of the crew read this blog. I wonder if they ask themselves, “What was I thinking?”, or do they just wonder why we don’t get it, why we don’t understand the message of their martyred leader.
If I were them, I would be wondering why we broke our vow and loyalty to the Master. Once he is freed, they are all in big trouble!
He will never be freed, unless a corpse in a body bag could be described as free.
IF Raniere ever gets out of prison alive, and that’s a very big IF, how is he going to cause “big trouble” for them? He will probably be in his 80s or 90s and totally broken down, mentally, physically, emotionally, etc.
I suspect the hardcore true believers, and those who were so deeply involved that they’re probably still in denial about their roles, are continuing to follow their indoctrination and avoid the uncomfortable truth, ignoring this site. In my experience with other forums and other groups, if people like that were visiting here, they would have a hard time resisting making exactly those sorts of “you just don’t get it” comments. Instead we have just Monte Blue, who could just be a troll and if not not sounds like one of the Mexicans; plus “Pea Onyu” and what are probably various other aliases of the same person, who seems very much like a troll or is at least just one person.
Maybe Frank has a better feel, or at least a different opinion, as to whether any of those figures read the blog. I gather that Karen Unterreiner lurked here at one point, but that was because she was becoming disaffected, and apparently on the way to turning against NXIVM behind the scenes.
Maybe pea is Keith ?
If so, he picked the wrong name. Pea Brain is mch more appropriate.