Bangkok has expressed he is highly dubious of the claim that it might be possible that Keith Raniere may have had a hand in giving his female followers cancer.
Here is how Bangkok expressed it:
By Bangkok
Frank keeps making references to the cancer victims in Keith’s senior harem, by implying that Keith must have given them all cancer by slow poisoning, LOL.
But Mr. Parlato isn’t realizing that it’s virtually impossible to give another person cancer on purpose.
It can’t even be done in a lab with reliable results.
Especially since all 4 women had differing types of cancer.
Poisoning somebody will not give them cancer in the short term.
It may slightly increase their risk of cancer in the long term — just as smoking or overeating will — but in the short term they’d have far more serious symptoms like retching their guts out, fevers, extreme sickness. They’d have months of such symptoms if they were being poisoned over a long period (but not cancer).
Guess what?
None of these senior harem members displayed those symptoms before their cancer diagnosis.
…and if Keith gave them ‘tiny’ amounts of poisoning (so tiny that no symptoms were present) then that wouldn’t give them cancer either —– since it would mean their immune systems were strong enough to expel such tiny amounts of poison without any effects.
I mean, just look at the NXIVM YMCA poisoning case [During -V-Week 2016]. Just a single meal of (allegedly) poisoned food led to massive illness for days that weekend at the YMCA.
Look dipshits… If Keith had been poisoning his senior harem members for weeks/months (in an attempt to give them cancer) they’d have been very sick like that for months.
Thus, Frank has just had his cancer theory shot down.
I challenge Frank to present evidence that cancer can be selectively given to people in the short term without any noticeable side effects.
Will Frank present evidence of this ever happening before, along with medical citations to prove his point?
I doubt it.
He’ll just keep hinting that Keith gave them cancer, just as he’ll keep insisting that Keith ‘disappeared’ Kristin Snyder when the evidence points away from Keith (the suicide note disrespected NXIVM and cast them in a super negative light, something Keith would NEVER allow).
The floor is yours, Frank. 🙂
********************
Later I will give a more detailed response, But I think it is good the question out there.
I appreciate Bangkok’s comment.
For the moment we have only the evidence that the women who lived with him the longest all got cancer.
That one of them, whose hair was tested, had high levels of barium and bismuth in her hair.
That Keith, possibly projecting, claimed that giving people cancer was a technique developed by the CIA and he believed that Edgar Bronfman was trying to inflict/infect him with cancer using this technique and that the women who got cancer were collateral damage.
It may be possible that he did not do anything more than slowly and slightly poison his roommates not knowing necessarily that it would lead to their cancer.
Maybe he was just having fun.
Or of course it could be a pure coincidence that they all got cancer while he waxed in health.
It is also perhaps a coincidence that the two women who died of cancer just happened to make their wills out with him as the sole legatee. Both had seven figure estates. It may also be a coincidence that another Nxivm devotee, Suzanne Kemp, also a millionaire, made out her will in favor of Keith.
She then contracted breast cancer. After getting ill, she left Nxivm and changed her will leaving her estate to charity. Keith was very chagrined and at one point, when she was near death and hospitalized, he sent his able stooge Steve Ose to her home to get on her computer and see if he could find out anything or perhaps find a way to change the will.
Susan Dones was there and seems to have thwarted an otherwise worthy plan.
And Keith apparently was furious over the fact that after Suzanne got cancer, she had the audacity not to submit to his treatments and changed the will.
I am reminded of the old joke about O J Simpson complaining that everyone was writing books and making money off his trial except him and, as he said “And I’m the one who did all the work!”
Of course, all of these are coincidences, of cancer occurring in women who made their wills in favor of Raniere, but as they say in law enforcement, “enough coincidences make a fact.”
It’s extremely unlikely that Raniere actually figured out some way to give women cancer – that really would mean he was one of the world’s smartest men and top problem solvers, at least in some respect.
He may well have subjected them to things that increased their likelihood of getting cancer and, once afflicted, decreased their chances of survival – in fact I believe we know he did the latter, by discouraging them from getting proper medical treatment.
If women in Raniere’s harem, and not just DOS, were sleep-deprived for years on end, that is known to impact health negatively, but it looks as if the extreme thinness he preferred and imposed, may have been the worst thing:
Why Do Thin People Have Elevated All-Cause Mortality?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401726/
Skinny women ‘four times more likely to suffer breast cancer before the menopause than the obese’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6595669/skinny-women-four-times-more-likely-to-suffer-breast-cancer-before-the-menopause-than-the-obese/
It may well have been some combination of things. It’s been observed that heavily involved members of Scientology often seem to die prematurely, and the best explanation for that is some combination of stressors like sleep deprivation that increase risk, along with lack of proper medical care and treatment.
Also, it turns out that cancer clusters are something that can often just be chalked up to chance, and are very hard to figure out:
Cancer Clusters
“Confirmation of a cancer cluster does not necessarily mean that there is any single, external cause or hazard that can be identified. A confirmed cancer cluster could be the result of (1) chance, (2) miscalculation of the expected number of cancer cases (e.g., not considering a risk factor within the population at risk), (3) differences in the case definition between observed cases and expected cases, (4) known causes of cancer (e.g., smoking), and (5) unknown cause(s) of cancer. Follow-up investigations can be done but can take years to complete, and in most instances, no cause is found.”
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/clusters/factsheet.htm
bangcock? nothing more than a troll that Franks likes to play.
You didn’t refute the basic claim that poison doesn’t cause cancer, especially in the short-term.
I think FR readers would find Pam Caffritz’s Will shocking and very enlightening. I’m sure Suzanne Kemp’s “Raniere” Will is equally circumspect.
The Goddess, Samayatara, says her pal, Goddess Juno, is suspicious and outraged that the DOJ has apparently not delved deeper into the deaths of these women when anyone who ever helped prepare or read these documents must have instantly realized they were written in blood by the hand of a murderous psycho.
Spoiler alert: Pam willed her ovaries.
Heidi, do you actually have some inside scoop on Cafritz’ will? What I think we most want to know, is how much money Raniere was actually left, and under what terms.
I’ve been asking if anyone has tried to see if it’s even been probated yet – presumably that would be in Saratoga county.
p.s. Checking once more in order to be diligent, I found that probate records, which as I understand are filed in county surrogate courts, should actually be available online for both Saratoga and Albany, through the NSYCEF system at https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/CaseSearch – but no luck, though the search is rather general and it’s not clear whether it actually looks up decendents names (no hits on Cafritz or Jaske), or the filing party (no hits on Raniere) which might just be the attorney involved (unknown).
Frank’s got it. I read it. The 8M goes to Keith but the most disturbing part for me is how it’s laced with subtle coerciveness — almost a suicide contract obsolving Keith & co. and making her death into a noble sacrifice — brrrrr. Pam’s fam saw that it’d be hard to keep one of them from strangling Keith in the courtroom. NOT a death threat, just a metaphorical impression!
I kept wondering about her parents and their position on the will. Thanks for answering that Heidi.
No, Hutchinson constantly makes things up and writes in an overly dramatic manner. That’s one of many reasons why she’s the only one on the planet who has been disinvited from my radio/podcast show.
I’m not the one comparing Amway to NXIVM, Schlocker.
Heidi – could you call Scott by his name instead of Schlocker? I’m hoping for a little more civility in the comments section and I think we are slowly getting better with more substantive comments and a little less name calling. We have a ways to go.
Shame on Heidi. Schlocker is out of line.
To avoid any missteps, are any of these acceptable when referencing Johnson?
Scooter, Tea drinking priss, DeVos’s bitch, Ping Pong Queen, The Southpaw Sissy, Mingils’s intern, Laundry Detergent connoisseur, The Melaleuca Maiden, or “That Really Fun Guy”?
My bad Mr. Parlato I totally just referred to Pam as a giraffe.
That’s because you don’t have any idea about what you’re saying, and I do. Raniere was in Amway before he started NXIVM and he imported a lot of the Amway techniques into NXIVM.
Why would any human want a giraffes ovaries?
Pam Catfriz’s neck is 1/2 a foot too long.
I agree with Bangkok. I think they all got cancer from guilty consciences.
Well, since narcissists have no conscience to get guilty with, that would explain why Keith’s healthy and you haven’t got cancer, either.
HPV virus is a possible explanation— heterosexual men can be carriers w/o contracting.
Also, there’s just not a lot of current research in the United States on how to give a human cancer due to ethics.
There may be in Mexico, Russia, China and NXIVM certainly had the funding to obtain that kind of contraband research.
I bet if someone on FR could research the dark net in Chinese…
Say, did Rainbow Vulture Garden have any…nevermind.
—HPV virus is a possible explanation— heterosexual men can be carriers w/o contracting.
There have been a number of scientific studies that have shown HPV may cause a number of cancers; including all of the cancers developed by the women who have slept with Raniere.
I hate the injustice of narcissists ruining people’s lives yet they sleep well at night. Literally, pass out in 5 minutes deep sleep! Most annoying!
That’s for sure!
I’m still waiting for a Bangkook post trashing any Mexicans. He’s after everyone but any of them and always knows my whereabouts, as we know. Care to explain yourself on that, Bangy?
Awfully prejudicial of you to go after all but Mexicans and stalk only a defenseless, white woman.
The problem with cancer cases is proving the exact source of the carcinogens that caused the cancer.
Down in Louisiana there are many oil refineries and petrochemical plants and a very high rate of cancer so much so that the area is called Cancer Alley.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley
How would one trace a person’;s cancer to any one particular source?
I am not denying that Keith Raniere would poison someone.
I just don’t know how one would prove Raniere is connected to these cancers without other evidence.
The issue is one of causation..
Petrochemicals are known carcinogens, but result in elevated cancer rates only when exposed to very high doses and for long periods of time, and even then the percentages are relatively low compared to Raniere’s “success” rate.
It’s also worth noting that the women were subject to years if not decades of unhealthily restricted diets, and possibly chronic sleep deprivation. Studies have shown that, among other risks, extremely thin women are up to 4 times more likely to get breast cancer:
Why Do Thin People Have Elevated All-Cause Mortality?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4401726/
It may also be that there was something particularly harmful in their environment or products they consumed, from supplements to personal health care products – especially if they were concocting things on their own. On top of that, they likely didn’t get normal preventive medical exams and care, nor the standard treatments for cancer that result in many people walking among us who we may not even be aware were once diagnosed and were/are patients.
Observers have noted that a lot of members of Scientology seem to die relatively young, often of cancer, and that has been attributed to a combination of unusual stressors and lack of standard medical care.
I think it’s a valid point, that it’s extraordinarily unlikely that Raniere actually figured out some reliable way to give women cancer, at least deliberately. It’s the sort of theory that seems superficially plausible, but falls apart when the underlying presumptions are carefully considered in the light of facts and research.
But that doesn’t mean that he didn’t do some things, particularly promoting unhealthy habits and then dissuading women from seeking proper care, that contributed to a seemingly unusual cluster of cancer cases; and that his callousness or malice may not have resulted in women dying unnecessarily once they became ill.
“Confirmation of a cancer cluster does not necessarily mean that there is any single, external cause or hazard that can be identified. A confirmed cancer cluster could be the result of (1) chance, (2) miscalculation of the expected number of cancer cases (e.g., not considering a risk factor within the population at risk), (3) differences in the case definition between observed cases and expected cases, (4) known causes of cancer (e.g., smoking), and (5) unknown cause(s) of cancer. Follow-up investigations can be done but can take years to complete, and in most instances, no cause is found.”
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/clusters/factsheet.htm