The following is our latest in our Lauren Salzman series where we report and evaluate her testimony in the trial of Keith Alan Raniere.
Part of our study is to analyze in effect a sort of ratio – of how much Lauren [or for that matter anyone who joins a cult and does questionable and illegal things at the direction of the leader] is a victim versus being a perpetrator.
Lauren is an extremely interesting case for rarely do we have such in-depth testimony about a sex cult member, who seems willing to tell all – in order – no doubt – to save herself from a lengthy prison sentence.
But her testimony is fulsome. And there is a ring of truth in it.
She is not only bringing us into the creepy world of Nxivm and Keith Raniere but also into the mind of an otherwise intelligent follower who left her conscience and her better judgment checked at the door because she believed that Raniere’s wisdom was so vastly superior to her own that, if she doubted the rightness of what he was doing or teaching, it was because she was flawed.
The real question here is then: if a woman checks her conscience and commits crimes out of the belief that a leader’s teachings are in the best interest of people including herself – is it still her crimes?
Does she lose the necessary intent to commit a crime by her blind obedience?
I think most people would say she did commit crimes and with the necessary criminal intent. And that she does not deserve complete exoneration.
But our question is where is the grey line? Where does she deserve some, if any, leniency for her choosing to abandon her own independent reasoning by deferring all ultimate moral judgments to her master?
****
AUSA Tanya Hajjar is examining Lauren.
Q At around this time did NXIVM, the company, hire a public relations firm?
A Yes.
Q And did the firm reach out to a reporter to run a story on DOS?
A Yes.
Q Do you know the name of that reporter?
A Vanessa Grigoriadis, I think.
Q Were you interviewed by that reporter?
A Yes, I was.
Q And what did you tell her?
A Same thing I told everybody. I — mostly — most of the subject of my interview with Vanessa related to NXIVM. But any statements that I would have made to her about the sorority contained all the misrepresentations and untruths that I’ve testified to so far. And I even represented things about Jness that I really have no experience or knowledge about because I was sent in really to be the spokesperson for both of these things, and I did that.
Q You mentioned Jness earlier in your testimony. Can you just remind the jury what Jness is?
A Jness was a women’s organization and it had a very specific gender focus, how are women, how are men, how do they relate with each other? That was the main curriculum and subject of the entire education of Jness.
Q What was your view of the Jness curriculum?
A I really struggled with the Jness curriculum on a number of levels. I thought a lot of it was trying to normalize and legitimize Keith’s polyamorous lifestyle and help lay a philosophical foundation for why we should all get on board for that. We should have these monogamous relationships where men get to have all these polyamorous relationships and that that’s the nature of men and that this is something to be understood, you know, and promoted, and that was very difficult for me.
And there were also parts of the Jness curriculum that seemed to be advocating for — but it doesn’t matter –that the most ethical and the most open-minded non –nonvested and nonissue perspective would be not that you have your own children, but that you have the most genetically fit children. And so I thought that it was advocating for people to want to have children specifically with Keith because of his most genetically fit, you know, high intellect, ethical, compassionate perception as a human, that this was like how he was laying the foundation for people to think that that was a good idea and accepts that and want that.
I think a lot of — you know, on retrospective, I think a lot of the Jness and the SOP and DOS curriculum was creating a community of people and kind of even an army of people to insulate and protect Keith and his views and legitimize and advocate for the lifestyle that he wanted to live.
And a lot of us had real problems with it, and we were told that it was our issues and it was our indoctrination and it was — you know, that was problematic and that had to go, but it was limited. It was fear based and, you know, it was incredibly restrictive and it was creating damage and thwarting our objectives as an organization and as a community.
Q Notwithstanding your comments to the reporter, had you had these feelings about Jness earlier when you first took their curriculum?
A Yes. And I discussed them with different people. I went and had EMs about them with a number of people.
Q Can you —
A I went to Keith, too, and said, “Is this what you’re advocating for?” Like, “is this what you think that everybody should be, polyamorous?” And he said, “No, I’m not, necessarily. I was thinking about it more like if people understood that men had these needs or whatever, there might be places where they could go to get those needs met like with prostitutes or something like that”. I was like, “Really? That’s like — is that what we’re advocating now for? That all the — that all the couples in our community now understand that men have these needs and they need to go get them met in other places?” To me it was very difficult, you know.
And I — and I chalked it up to obviously I’m having a big reaction to this so I need to look at why it’s my issue, you know, and work it through and there’s a lot that I can learn, obviously.
Q Ms. Salzman, you say, Obviously, I had a reaction to this. It’s obviously my issue. What are you talking about? Can you explain that?
A Yeah. That — I mean, within our curriculum, within the NXIVM curriculum, which was laid out first and then it carried over into Jness and SOP, the women’s and men’s curriculum and into DOS as well, that when we have emotions and emotional reactions to things and the circumstances, that that’s a clue to something that’s going on internally with us. But it’s not the external circumstance that’s problematic. It’s our reaction to it, you know, that’s indicative of some limiting belief or fear that is an opportunity for us to grow and that we should view it as that.
So when I had strong emotions and reactions to the things, I looked at it as I must be really limited. And when I went to go talk to other people about those things, they were like,” Well, this is exactly why Keith put it in the curriculum, to give you this opportunity to grow through it.”
Q Do you have that view now?
A I think that there are things that are legitimately objectively good or bad, and there are things that are subjective. But there are things that are subjectively good or bad. And that it’s a hundred percent normal to feel emotional about that. Even if there are limiting beliefs or whatever, it doesn’t negate the fact that certain things are not good and that certain things are criminal.
Q Were other first-line DOS masters interviewed by the same reporter?
A Yes. At least Allison, and I think possibly Nicki [Clyne] too. But I’m not a hundred percent sure on that.
Q Did you subsequently learn something about what Allison Mack had said to the reporter?
A Yes, I did.
Q What was that?
A There were a few things that I learned. One, was that she had said in — she conveyed it as a moment of impulse. She took credit for coming up with the idea of the brand and then was like, “I don’t know why I did that. You know, I just felt special in the moment” and I was, you know, and I said — I said it. “But that was false.” And that she also — her accounting of it was that she characterized it as this wonderful opportunity for women to explore their sexuality and sensuality as women, which I specifically disagreed with.
Q Was Nicki Clyne interviewed by the reporter, to your knowledge?
A Either she was or she believed she was going to be and we had discussions and made preparations for that.
Q Did she ask you for anything before she met with the reporter?
A She did. She — she asked — she thought that it would be a good idea to have a visual representation of the brand and to show how each of the lines of the brand could legitimately represent the alternate story that we were laying out, which was the seven chakras, the four elements, Bar Alpha Mu, and there was another thing about triangles descending and ascending triangles and lines. And so I — I agreed to do — to draw this out and I grafted, I drew it on the graph paper where I just reproduced the brand each time in its entirety but highlighting the element that I was referring to and how it was each of the things, each of –what it represented, the seven chakra or the four element or the Bar Alpha Mu. I highlighted how you could see — each of those could be interrupted from the brand.
***
Q And this concept that the Bar Alpha Mu could be an explanation for the brand, who gave you that idea?
A Keith.
Q And was this after DOS was publicly exposed?
A Yes.
***
Lauren also explained how she had concocted another idea – that the brand represented the four earth symbols
Q And was this another false explanation for what the lines in the brand stood for?
A Yes, all of them are.
*********************
Yes, Lauren has seen the light. She now recognizes fully, she says, though she partly recognized it in the past: that Keith was a self-serving teacher. What he taught others allegedly for their own good was only to enable the lifestyle he wanted for himself.
Before her arrest, Lauren thought that it was her “issue,” her problem, her flaw, when she did not agree with his teachings, crazy though they may sound.
She substituted his thinking for her own. And she was able to completely subdue or extinguish – or if that is not possible – to ignore for a time – that small voice of conscience that told her she was wrong to follow him, that he was wrong and that what he was doing was bad for her and for others.
That what he was doing was selfish.
That killing of conscience is what’s of interest. For it is but a small step from killing the conscience to killing consciousness itself. To becoming a mindless robot in the service of another. How far would Lauren have gone if she had not been stopped? Had DOS not been broken by its exposure and his arrest?
Would she have robbed for him? Would she have killed or ordered other women to kill?
We have seen that she would blackmail, extort, lie, defraud; she even force-feed and surreptitiously gave drugs to an unruly student and, as we shall see, she was willing to work with him in imprisoning a woman [Daniela] in a room for almost two years – and then later refused to give her ID papers so she could return to normal life in Mexico.
Who’s to say she would not have killed for Raniere – for his beliefs or her belief in him?
Lauren is one lucky woman that she was arrested and freed from the cult and the monster. I wonder if she realizes that?
She may think her arrest was a bit of bad luck, an unfortunate occurrence. She may be more upset about going to prison for 5 years or so than her being in the cult for 20 years – though she decries her role in the cult in court.
As long as she thinks that, if she thinks it, then she is still a slave to the cult and her own demons. She is still a criminal and her confessions on the witness stand, her mea culpa, was simply to avoid prison time.
She betrayed Raniere just as she betrayed herself.
But, if she honestly – in her heart, in her conscience –- can say she is glad she was arrested because it extricated her from the monster, then, in my opinion, she is on the road to redemption.
If there were a way to divine the truth of this – to the extent that she is truly glad to be free of the clutches of Raniere – even at the cost of prison, to that extent that that is true, to that same extent I believe she deserves leniency and mercy.
Of course, we cannot lose sight of the fact that, with her blind obedience to Raniere, she had both pleasure and pain. The rewards of being honored as a teacher, a leader in this quasi-religious group with their mission. She was a wise woman; that fed her ego. And she made good money – in the $150,000- $200,000 per year range. Enough to bring her two houses, two expensive cars, trips to Mexico and Fiji, but no boyfriend, no husband – and, saddest of all from her viewpoint, no child. Years of loneliness, loveless life.
Years supposedly without sex, yet being required to have sex on demand with a man who had 30 other women at his beck and call.
She was a robot, a slave, a fool and she enjoyed it.
Is she more or less a criminal because of that?
Sometime in the future, the judge will decide.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
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“so I — I agreed to do — to draw this out and I grafted, I drew it on the graph paper”
She AGREED to push a pencil for “Allison Mack’s” brainstorm?
Gee whiz, I thought Keith, not Allison, was on trial.
I think this explains why we didn’t hear a chirp from the “AM” canary. Or Kristin Keeffe.
Also, did I detect a ring of jealousy in the testimony about how Allison took the credit for the branding idea in the Gregoriadis interview?
The thing about subverting one’s “issues” — as any shrink worth a dime will say — is that they then grow stronger passively in the subconscious. I’m surprised these harem members didn’t kill each other, myself. (You know, being the killer type and all that I am.) …Or maybe they did.
“did I detect a ring of jealousy in the testimony about how Allison took the credit for the branding idea in the Gregoriadis interview?”
Heidi Hutchinson
Heidi, if Keith Raniere had chosen Lauren Salzman to be Chief Pimp instead of Allison Mack, Lauren would have been walking on air.
And if Allison had chosen you, Shadow, as her guru we’d all be spared the sordid details of your Chloe fetish fantasies.
Are you kidding me? ROFLMAO
Frank:
“..If there were a way to divine the truth of this – to the extent that she is truly glad to be free of the clutches of Raniere – even at the cost of prison, to that extent that that is true, to that same extent I believe she deserves leniency and mercy..”
DJ:
Well, she needs at minimum to serve at least as many months as she kept Daniela locked up in that room with her mattress and paper and pens to write Keith apology letters.
Frank:
“…How far would Lauren have gone if she had not been stopped? Had DOS not been broken by its exposure and his arrest?
Would she have robbed for him? Would she have killed or ordered other women to kill?
We have seen that she would blackmail, extort, lie, defraud; she even force-feed and surreptitiously gave drugs to an unruly student and, as we shall see, she was willing to work with him in imprisoning a woman [Daniela] in a room for almost two years – and then later refused to give her ID papers so she could return to normal life in Mexico…”
DJ:
It is totally human nature for people to get “more so” with time. If your an ass at 30 your a bigger ass at 50.
You can clearly see the escalation of the evil acts Lauren was committing for her Vanguard who knew better than her.
Clearly, it could have gradually escalated into Keith convincing Lauren that a little poison is good, now a little more, then more…..
Keith to Lauren:
“..This is the ultimate issue for you to overcome Lauren, your ultimate fear. To not want X gone is your issue, your refusal to grow, this is your ultimate growth. This is commitment to being ethical to keeping me as Vanguard. This X person will bring us down and I will not be able to be your Vanguard anymore. More poison now Lauren, more poison, you can overcome all your issues and show your true commitment to me. You can’t say you love me without experiencing pain.”
….This is just fiction/opinion only…..
Raniere was such an asshole to Lauren. He wanted whores, not her. All you inner circle women are lucky to be alive. Although there may be people out there that still want your heads on a stick, you’re still here. Can’t say that for the other girls.
I wonder at the convenient timing of Lauren’s about-face. She was glib and earnest in the service of Raniere and months later she’s glib and earnest in the service of the prosecutor. Words pour out of her as if her life depended on it, which it literally does. Now, as before, she’s just backing the right horse. First, that horse was enabling her to earn $200,000 a year; next, it was the Federal government saying “You have nothing to lose and everything to gain putting on the best performance of your life in our trial against Raniere.”
Consider also she claims in her testimony that she formed sound objections to the programming being done through programs like JNESS– not after Raniere’s arrest, when she woke up from her nightmare of enslavement, but when the programs were being packaged and rolled out. As she’s testifying, she’s grappling with how to show the court she is a trustworthy witness– someone who is articulate, has firm convictions, is believable. But to the very extent she succeeds at this, she contradicts herself. If her conscience was developed enough for her to see the twisted nature of the teachings she mentions, why did she support them? By her own admission, she failed to follow her conscience AS she was aware of the foulness of what she was asked to do.
Lauren’s no dope. Helping the prosecutor as their chief witness will no doubt count for something at her sentencing. She’s counting on it.
I’m glad Frank has included these transcripts of Lauren’s testimony from trial. They are very interesting and are not something that would be typically available in other major media venues. But I don’t think Lauren’s case presents the quandary that he claims it does. What we know, based on the facts in record and her own admission (from testimony included here and in past articles), is that she committed, with expressed zeal and overt enthusiasm, coercive, dehumanizing, heinous acts. This was not some wincing, cowering wallflower. She was a leading participant in an MLM scam to bilk people of millions. Think about all the personal traits it requires to perform this role. Do you think the con ended with Raniere’s arrest? Maybe, but I’m skeptical.
Lauren and her crime is redundant!. She will go to jail for turning on her Master. All of you stupid girls should have kept your secret! You all had a good thing going until you let Vanguard take things to far with the Perlato. Everything was beautiful while we shared one masterful penis. Now he will be ass raped because you all couldn’t keep your big mouths shut!
Nicki:
I know you are upset about what happened to Keith Raniere.
But Keith knew better than to have 50 — 60 — 70 girl friends at the same time.
Keith Raniere was asking for trouble.
Big Trouble!
Say, Nicki:
In this photo in the link below there is a photo of India Oxenberg and your wife Allison Mack.
They are obviously walking in a farm field with hilly land in the background.
And what are they smoking?
Are those cigars or blunts?
Shadow that is India but not Allison smoking cigars. I don’t know who that girl is.
Peaches,
That is Allison Mack in a dark wig.
If you look at this gallery you will see that Allison Mack frequently changes hair color and style.
https://www.instagram.com/charger426hemi1/
Sorry….not even close to being Mack.
Parts of Salzman’s testimony here make me think of what is referred to as “introversion” in Scientology. That is both a technical term related to their counseling sessions (which NXIVM’s “EM” sessions definitely borrowed from) in which the subject becomes excessively inward-focused, and also used to describe their technique of thought reform or mind control in which individuals are directed and conditioned to look within and blame themselves when confronted with misbehavior by their superiors in the hierarchy, or the organization and its leader.
This is typical of the way that so-called “responsibility” and blame only flow downward in high control groups or cults. Members, including staff and executives, are always the ones held to account, and those higher in status or the guru can never be considered to possibly be wrong, or open to criticism, so an issue is always put back on the one raising it.
I agree that it does really seem as if Salzman has come to see the light on at least that aspect of how NXIVM functioned. At least, excepting the most cynical case, in which she understood what was really going on all along; but that seems unlikely, particularly given that if she were that savvy I don’t she’d have allowed herself to end up left without companionship or children.
And Frank, thanks, once again, for this series, which gives us the only good window there is into the inner workings of the group and the mindset of their members. Unless there is a new trial with more testimony, we won’t get any such opportunity until a former insider has had the time and gained the insight to really start to process and understand what they were involved in, and can do some things like record well-focused videos, write some extensive articles (including on a website), or even author a book.
I think the NXIVM horse was beaten to death a long time ago. It’s time to move on to another scam, such as Amway and other MLM scams.
I have an idea for you. Why don’t you build your own website and promote the best job you ever had from there.
I’m with you, Brooke.
I have two websites. Search this site with the words “Why I’m here” for your answer.
Scott Scamway Johnson, I’m going to beat you! We here at the Frank Report are aware that you are still upset you got fired from the best job you ever had….well except for the time you posed nude for the cover of Amway 1991 calendar when you had hair. Boy, you were a hoot. I sold ten of those hats for the price of one. Went back bought some more, sold some more. Now I’m rich! Viva executive excess BTW “come on my radio show”, is the bathroom stall foot tap, if you know what I mean.
And Frank thinks MY comments are nasty…LOL
Scott, if that’s the case, then the Amway/MLM horse was beaten to death long before NXIVM was even a twinkle in Raniere’s eye.
I think the point with both is that there are always young and vulnerable people coming along who need to be made aware of such scams, and very long-term work than needs to be done to get society and the legal system to eventually further restrict the ability of such organizations to deceive, manipulate, exploit and abuse people.
HIgh control groups and cults tend to be short-lived, and to mutate in ways such as how NXIVM incorporated elements of MLMs. The value in continuing to expose NXIVM is that it helps educate people and warn them away from whatever the the newer cults are, that we may not even know about yet.
How many people have ever joined NXIVM and are still joining NXIVM, compared to Amway and other MLM scams?
Particularly if you want to make the comparison to “Amway and other MLM scams,” then it has to be to NXIVM _and_ other cults.
And how many people have committed mass suicide because of a MLM? Killed for it? Been coerced to abort children for it? Been given access to children by it, and then abused them, and had it covered up in order to protect sales and recruiting? Committed crimes from burglary and espionage, to poisoning people’s pets, or orders from its leaders? Or been forced to cut ties with most or all of their family including parents, siblings, spouses and children?
That points to a complex issue that it’s hard to compare the psychological, social and economic damage caused, which is actually much worse at the individual level in more extreme cults even if they have relatively fewer members.
Many of those things, and many other severe crimes, have occurred in much larger numbers with MLM scams. Also, MLMs are cults as well as scams.
Off Topic!
Re Iran’s Missile Attack on US Base:
I debated with many of you that US military personal are not air lifted out of US military bases for minor concussions. Most of you told me I didn’t know what I was talking about.
You were all wrong and were all lied to by the government of the United States:
https://fox61.com/2020/01/24/pentagon-34-us-troops-had-brain-injuries-from-irans-missile-strike/amp/
Wake up libtards and alt-rights! Johnson, what navy did you serve in again? Slovakia?
I am a Republican. I am not a libtard and I am not alt-right.
You still don’t know what you’re talking about. The story said that there were delayed symptoms, and half of them are back at their jobs. You are a RINO. LOL
Remember folks, this is the guy who is too scared to pick up a phone and his wife leads him around with a nose-ring. LOL
Scott-
It’s fake news my defective friend.
Scotty,
Thirty-four US troops were diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries resulting from Iran’s missile attack on an Iraqi air base earlier this month — 17 of whom are still under medical observation, the Pentagon reported Friday.—NY Post
17 still under observation….What the hell do you believe they are still be treated for?
LOL.
Those 17 soldiers are likely under observation for the same thing as the 2 soldiers who got slapped by General Patton in WWII —- it’s a medical condition called ‘battle fatigue’, but it’s more commonly known as COWARDICE from frayed nerves due to being pussies.
In other words, they pee’d their panties when the ground shook and are likely basket cases now. They’re probably a bunch of pussies complaining of an ouchie in their brains.
They are likely liberals (just like you and your fat wife) who are milking their treatment for all its worth.
Why not go back to your fat Sicilian wife and ask her why she doesn’t respect you?
Bangkok – we are not using monikers that are take offs of anybody else’s name – not even mine. Sorry. Besides I like Bangkok, and you have to please your fans.
Bangkok—
Kindly go back to your normal weekend of pursuits like playing video games, and eagerly servicing the needs of other men in bathroom stalls, at highway rest stops.
Even the VFW is coming down on the side of taking this seriously:
Veterans of Foreign Wars group demands apology after Trump said traumatic brain injuries from Iranian attack are ‘not very serious’
https://fox61.com/2020/01/25/veterans-of-foreign-wars-group-demands-apology-after-trump-said-traumatic-brain-injuries-from-iranian-attack-are-not-very-serious/
Interestingly, that is yet another example of what I have noticed quite a bit of lately when fact-checking and trying to be objective about sources, that there are stories Fox News just doesn’t even cover – in this case an affiliate covered it on their own by using an article that actually came from CNN.
You “forgot” to address the delay in the reporting of symptoms. When do you think Trump should have bombed the crap out of Iran?
“Delay”?
Fake news moron. There is no delay when you suffer blast brain damage (serious concussions). Wake up moron. The government is hiding the truth. The Iranian shitheads schooled us. Trump cowed-downed because he has an election coming up and the impeachment hearings.
Lauren Salzman has earned her hard-faced rigid, blank expression and the grim anger underlying it. This ugliness and whatever she has still has materially are what Lauren has been left with for herself, after 20+ years of choosing to remain blindly stuck in her completely disambiguating rut, incapable of allowing herself any independent thoughts or actions, beyond such rudiments as brushing one’s teeth, sitting on a toilet, wiping and flushing.
Of course, Lauren the slave seemed only too willing and accepting of acquiring slaves of her own eventually. How did her supposed inherent conflicts not drive her crazy? She shows herself as both self-perceived as being worthless and hopelessly unworthy, the miserable magpie of self-denial. Yet simultaneously, out of the other side of her her mouth, she cluelessly boasts of her executive self-importance, her position as a significant and prosperous member of the very organization enshrining her unworthiness.
She and all of her cohorts walked a fine line of utter insanity while pretending that theirs was a superior way of living, perpetually churning the same crock of rancid choices, like economically less-deprived girlfriends of Charles Manson, only their hero was costumed as Keith Raniere, the world’s smartest man.
Even Lauren’s court testimony was a psychological mishmash. Her concept of self-awareness never once eluded the heaviness of her self-prescribed vacuum of “growth.” What Lauren spent her life “growing” has been her very own virus, which she received eagerly and avidly from Raniere and her mother and finally, from herself. Does she seriously think that she has accomplished a single thing, devoutly spreading her virus, trying to engender the same complete failure to others?Now, Lauren stands a good chance of spending the rest of her life as an embittered puppet, without the eyes to see herself.
Lauren, still the dutiful parrot, unwilling or unable to see beyond her own ego, her own ambition and greed. Fantasizing about having had a special life, a special (nonexistent) lover, a special never-to-exist baby. Lauren, hungry for her pathetic position on top of the garbage heap. Now Lauren cannot realistically continue to follow Raniere, so instead Lauren seems to be back to following her original head Daisy Duck, her hideous mother.
Lauren Salzman, the group leader, the writer of desperately meaningless psycho-babble and twisted, stupid schlock, all designed to make others point fingers of blame within and to ignore intolerable living conditions, based upon lies, deception and ultimately, self-deception. Lauren, the self-important hallucination, imagining a spiritually-advanced way of living, the proud representative of a predatory, pedophile monster. Lauren, the advanced asshole, championing a lifestyle of complete falsehood, whitewashed with smug words, pretending to be oh-so-helpful, all of the while satisfied to ignore her own burgeoning criminality, step by step.
It seems that the only thing that stopped Lauren Salzman in her tracks was getting caught and arrested. She was fine with keeping a prettier and younger woman captive and corroborating with stealing two years of this captive’s life. Apparently the girl had no humanity or significance to Lauren Salzman at all. The shocking thing is that Lauren kept at it, seeing nothing wrong with the concepts or with the actions of keeping someone a prisoner. Yet does anyone hear Salzman acknowledge her own competitive jealousy about the younger, prettier woman, a woman whom Raniere found more attractive and desirable than Lauren Salzman?
Lauren can talk a semi-adequate game of “redemptive” thought as part of a plea deal, but every word out of her testimony has been full of undigested personal resentment, aimed primarily at others, for her own choices. Lauren is willing to blame Raniere now, (it’s the thing to do!) but she has stuck to her Mommy Dearest, who once again appears to be Lauren’s primary ruler and guide. While testifying, Lauren seemed to manage to maintain her obliviousness to her own personal responsibility. Lauren had done the same number on herself for years in ESP/Nxivm/DOS. She has spent her entire life standing behind her mother in a Starbucks line, keeping her head down while Nancy Salzman gloated.
Lauren sat through court sounding like an officious fool, dipped in the absolute solidity of her own adopted illusions. Linguististic self-abnegation was treated by Lauren as if it were an actual reality. And then there was the counterforce to “balance” her cold, delusionary cruelties towards herself and others. Lauren made her income, bought her properties, kept two cars, bought herself her big ugly scarves and oversized blouses, a disgusting failure purchasing her symbols of executive success.
Here she is, the chatty Cathy of spirituality, of self-help and growth. “I am not worthy,” says Lauren Salzman. “I am so very worthy, though,” says Lauren Salzman. “Oh, wait a minute. I am not worthy. But that IS being worthy.” Evidently, Lauren has never been able to be alone with herself. She has lived as an echo chamber of stunning unoriginality., and it is doubtful that she has realized even this.
She is a half-alive testament to the “therapeutic” skills of her mother and of her mother’s interests. Always, Lauren appears to have looked to satisfy herself with a vacuous imitation of life. She maintained a fictional “love” relationship with Raniere for years and years and seems to resent him for all of his madness instead of taking her own self into account for sticking to him like superglue. Her face is also a perfect example of how successful her women’s empowerment bullshit has really had made her. “Whatever you do, evince nothing real from the self.” It looks as though never once in Lauren’s life was she in touch with her own thoughts, and she seems to have trusted mostly that her own mind couldn’t be trusted or given room for any realistic self-expression.
During her court testimony, Lauren seemed to have transferred her bitterness and resentments, for her own nauseating decisions, onto Raniere. How convenient for Lauren, because what she said in court gave voice to how very little she has been able to even begin to change her own lifelong dynamic. Lauren acknowledged what was required of her, by the prosecution to acknowledge, and the extremities with which she lived might make her admissions seem like a big deal.
So how has Lauren changed? She seems to have finally given herself permission to be a bitter, resentful middle-aged hag without a life to call her own. Lauren no longer has to stand behind her half-baked socially-acceptable excuses, as a leader of human growth potential. She is now what? The self-righteous and much put upon deceived victim?
Still, Lauren Salzman kept a much younger woman isolated for at least two years, a young woman whose identity papers were being held from her. Lauren was well aware that Raniere had more direct sexual interest in the young lady that he had towards Lauren herself. Lauren knew about Raniere’s sexual involvement, not only with her captive, but with her captive’s sisters.
Who would want a relationship with Lauren Salzman today? Would she put a baby of her own through what she put one of her “romantic” rivals through, if the baby was too much competition for poor Lauren?
She might have to pay a little for her crimes. She might be a broken woman, as Judge Garaufis mentioned in court. It looks as though her worst punishment is going to be living with herself.
“The real question here is then: if a woman checks her conscience and commits crimes out of the belief that a leader’s teachings are in the best interest of people including herself – is it still her crimes?” There is no need to debate this question. Salzman was represented by several very experienced and very highly paid lawyers, and she plead guilty. So the answer is YES.
Just remember with Lauren – her mom is rotten. So she perhaps didn’t stand much chance in life. Still, she could have told the truth and not conned people into DOS. I think she has a conscience, albeit a flawed one.
I had a shit childhood. It’s no excuse!
You’re having a sh!t adulthood, too! LOL
Scott you are projecting again. My dear Garage Certified friend, are you still whittling cherubs out of Amway soap bars?
Do you have any Amway water filters you would like to sell?
No, I’m having a great adulthood, and had a great childhood as well. I never did whittle anything, from any object. Would you like to buy an Amway water filter? LOL
Any person who would brand other people on the flesh with a hot iron as if they were cattle has no conscience and is beyond redemption.
A hot iron would have been much better than what really happened. A branding iron is applied for a few seconds and then you can put ice on it and try to recover. It is terrible 3rd-degree burns don’t get me wrong, but what the slaves went through was like drawing out a brand for 30 minutes. Like a mini brand taking 30 minutes to do the initials of Keith and Allison.
People blurt out the truth in unguarded moments and according to Frank Allison said:
“…She took credit for coming up with the idea of the brand and then was like, “I don’t know why I did that. You know, I just felt special in the moment”
I think – in my opinion only – that this is why she included her initials in the brand:
“I don’t know why I did that. You know, I just felt special in the moment”
I think she felt special in those moments with Keith when planning the brand. It was how she felt at that time being with Keith. It was short-sited, no thought for future implications.
So I picture this:
2025:
Allison, on probation, runs across India and they look at each other in horrifying disbelief that they can’t believe they ran into each other after everything that has happened all those several years ago.
India on impulse quickly exposes her brand to Allison and asks her why? Why your initials Allison?
And Allison replying:
“I don’t know why I did that. You know, I just felt special in the moment”
….Opinion Only…
Holy crow – there but for the grace of God… Many years ago I had a 4 year intimate relationship with KAR. At the time, I thought we were a monogamous couple (I know better now) although I would sometimes accuse him of cheating which he vehemently denied and turned the accusation back on me. He always had some excuse as to why other women acted towards him as they did. He gave me a gold chain necklace for my birthday once with some smarmy note implying he would eventually give me a ring. I thought the desperation I felt at trying to hold on to a relationship with this very special man who was wanted by so many – I thought that was love. Finally, when I started to get involved in other activities and met other people, I realized that there were people I liked far better than him. It was my strong emotion that I didn’t have to stay with someone who abused me that saved me. When I see Lauren denied her own emotions because KAR taught that a strong emotional response indicates one has an “issue”, I want to vomit.
I tried to leave peacefully – told him I didn’t think we worked as a couple, and I wanted to step it back to just friends. He blocked me in a corner with his body – pushed me onto my bed and sat on me so I couldn’t go anywhere. So I waited until our lease was up and moved out on my own. 6-8 months later when I was seeing someone else, he called me at my then boyfriend’s place in a rage and demanded to know when we had broken up. I told him I had been gone for months, and if he couldn’t figure that out, I couldn’t help him. Don’t think I’ve spoken to him directly since though he did send stalker minions a couple of times. I left a message to tell him to quit it or I’d get a restraining order.
Clearly, he refined his abusive techniques and got more grandiose over the years with an army of enablers to back him up. And refined his targets – those who were able to close off their own conscience and deny their own emotions. Good luck to Lauren; she’s gonna finally have to take responsibility for her own thoughts, emotions, personality. Not sure prison is conducive to that, but you gotta reap what you sow.
What years were you with Raniere?
Quote: Holy crow – Many years ago I had a 4 year intimate relationship with KAR.
Translation: Many years ago, I was Keith’s slutty whore and I really enjoyed being with a smelly, short & pudgy pig.
I think your reading comprehension and vocabulary skills need work. Slut implies indiscriminant partners; I was loyal until I left. Whore implies sexual acts for compensation; I don’t do transactional sex.
You’re really kind of a jackass, aren’t you! Go ahead and troll away – I’ll just laugh at your juvenile behavior.
Too many familiarities,
Thank you so much for opening up and sharing!
I believe your story helps to highlight the sadistic, manipulative, and misogynistic personality traits of Keith Raniere.
I think other women will find comfort in the fact that they were not fools, but loving and trusting individuals who were manipulated by a master manipulator.
Pity Poor Bangkok!
No one should take Bangkok seriously. He had an extremely difficult childhood. He has dyslexia and ADHD. Bangkok’s reading comprehension level is that of a second grader. Bangkok’s dad started taking estrogen and left his mother for man.
Thank you for sharing that, Too Many. I’m always fascinated to hear from people here who have first hand knowledge of KR and/or his various scams. Congratulations on escaping from his tangled web.
Wow… a first hand account of a monster’s image… evil at its deepest level!
When I read the testimony of witnesses or accounts from others that experienced him directly, I am appalled at all the details that I recognize. Beyond just looking on a necklace as a slave collar – using illness to demand sex and cooperation; making meaningless requests to demonstrate his power over you and your abject obedience; constant lying and gaslighting and contradicting what you think and feel until you no longer know your own mind; the refusal to let go and let someone move on despite his own waning of interest… I see the world I lived multiplied and expanded a thousand times over. I still cannot fathom how a person can be so completely soulless, how they can be so committed to the destruction of others and cloak it in false “for your own good”.
I still cannot fathom why so many people stayed so quiet for so long. They must not care about others. At all. Talk about being so completely soulless, how can “they” [which includes YOU] be so committed to the destruction of others and cloak it in false “for my own good.”
This comment is an example of what’s wrong with our comments section. A woman comes forward and tells her story. She left Raniere years ago. She committed no crime. Other than him being an asshole to her, she really had nothing to say about Raniere before. She was not part of the cult. Her time with him happened before Nxivm and she was not working for him in CBI.
Why put her down? All that does is discourage others from commenting. That hurts the site. I applaud her telling us about a guy she dated years before he became notorious. She provides a glimpse of the past and yet her reward is that people snipe at her. Why?
I really have to rethink this idea of letting people come to my house [my blog] and for no good reason insult others. I believe in freedom of speech and I would never forbid anyone from having their own blog and criticizing and insulting people including me. But I think we should shift to ideas and debate these and move away from the personal insults of other commenters on Frank Report.
I am not saying we can’t debate robustly and have a little good humored teasing of each other- and I am not saying we cannot savagely criticize the subjects of the stories, but do we have to insult each other?
Frank,
I understand your wish to provide a one-of-kind forum, where the First Amendment is truly protected, and speech is not censored; However, as you know all to well, it comes with the cost of stifling the speech of individuals with first hand information.
I believe you are doing the right thing; I just wish there could be a balance, but that balance would curtail free speech.
******
Devils Advocate:
Who the hell wants to open their heart up and share their sad experience, to only be shit on by Bangkok and Scott?
My only suggestion is to ask Bangkok to use his real identity as you did previously.
I have cleaned up my act and decided to start acting like an adult. Mitch Garrity in-between his vulgarity and foul language, made some excellent points. 😉
Another role-playing comment from the “new” NiceGuy. LOL
Last thing about Mitch Garrity. His funniest line/insult ever said to me was….
“You sissy cuck cock sucking faggot…“You are homophobic!”…
I will miss those days. 😉
“They must not care about others.”
-Scott Johnson.
Try they were scared.
I have no idea who posted that comment, they didn’t use a name. It could have been anyone.
Thank you for writing your story.
KAR and those who take pride in associating with him and embrace his “tech” as having any constructive human potential are either criminals or fools.
To acknowledge ones mistakes and learn from them is good. To articulate and define your situation helps others know they were not the only ones.
Your comment/story is appreciated.
“But, if she honestly – in her heart, in her conscience – can say she is glad she was arrested, because it extricated her from the monster, then, in my opinion, she is on the road to redemption.”
Perhaps when this is all over and her time is served, she can also find her way on the road to recovery.