This is Part 9 of our study of Lauren Salzman, as we try to ascertain to what extent a member of a cult, a high ranking member, can be a victim or a perpetrator or a combination of varying degrees of both.
Part 1: How Lauren Salzman Described Her Branding Session
Part 3: Lauren Salzman Describes Collateral She Got From Her Slaves, After Lying to Them About DOS
Part 5 Lauren Salzman and Her Slaves Got Bare-Ass Paddling
Part 6: Lauren Salzman Manages Her Slaves – With Cruelty and Insanity
Part 8: More Insanity: Lauren Salzman Touches Man at Volleyball; Keith Says ‘No Avatar Baby’
In Part 9, we examine how Lauren tried to “help” a gay woman, Siobhan Hotaling, a longtime Nxivm member, cure her “ethical breach.”
Her breach was not wanting Keith Raniere’s sperm when she wanted to have a baby with her wife, Christine.
Assistant US Attorney Moira Penza is examining Lauren, who is a witness for the prosecution in the trial of Keith Alan Raniere.
****
Q Are you familiar with a woman named Siobhan?
A Yes, I am.
Q Who was Siobhan?
A Siobhan was a proctor in ESP NXIVM, and a friend of ours.
Q And can you describe if proctor is a rank in the —
A Proctors are rank, yeah. The proctors like run throughout the educational programs. And their first – like Level 1 where you can have a business with a person at that level of rank. They’re like the managers.
Q Are you aware of Siobhan’s sexual orientation?
A Siobhan identifies as gay, yeah.
Q Was she married?
A She was married and then divorced and now remarried.
Q And her first marriage, was that to a woman?
A Yes.
Q Was Siobhan’s wife involved in NXIVM?
A No.
Q At some point, did you become aware that Siobhan and her wife wanted to have children?
A I did, yes.
Q And to your knowledge, did she and her wife take steps to accomplish that?
A They did, yes. They went through fertility treatment, with an anonymous donor.
Q Did there come a time where the defendant [Keith Raniere] spoke to you about Siobhan’s decision to have children with an anonymous donor?
A Yes.
Q What did he tell you?
A He [Raniere] told me that Loreta [Garza] remembered that Siobhan at one time had asked him to be the donor. And that when Loreta reminded her about this, Siobhan went and victimized herself to her wife, like she was being pressured against her will to do this, and that that had changed Christine’s, her wife’s perception or beliefs and perceptions about Keith. And, basically, that she [Siobhan] had thrown him under the bus to her wife, and this was damaging.
Q So let’s take that slowly. What did the defendant consider to be Siobhan’s breach?
A That she had victimized herself and spoke badly about him to her wife concerning Keith possibly being the [sperm] donor.
Q Can you just break that down a little bit and explain it. So what did she [Siobhan] do to victimize herself, in the defendant’s view, as he explained it to you?
A That she felt forced [to use Keith as sperm donor] and then spoke about him like he was forcing her to do it, and made her wife think that she had been forced and felt. And then Christine viewed Keith badly because of this.
Q Forced to do what?
A To have Keith be the [sperm] donor of their child.
Q Did the defendant tell you what would have healed Siobhan’s breach?
A Yes. That Siobhan would legitimately come and ask him to be the donor. But then he said that he didn’t intend to have the child with Siobhan. He wasn’t going to have a child with Siobhan, but just that she had to legitimately ask.
But to me, that didn’t relate to the breach of throwing him under the bus to Christine. And if he hadn’t wanted to be the donor, then why would it have been important to remind Siobhan about this in the first place?
Q Did the defendant make a comment about Siobhan and her choice not to have him as the donor for her children?
A Yes, that he didn’t understand why she wouldn’t want to have him as the donor. And like why she would choose an anonymous donor over him, who she knew and had a prior relationship with.
And also that his children would have 50 percent off of the children’s educational program that he created. And so that seemed to him a good thing.
{Ed. Note: Ah Keith, what a great father. He was going to give his own kids 50 percent off. Rainbow Cultural Garden’s full cost was $10,000 per month.]
Q What was the educational program he created?
A Rainbow. Rainbow Cultural Gardens. It’s a multicultural – multilingual educational program that was expensive. So he said his children would have 50 percent off of that.
Q Were you asked to speak to Siobhan in any way regarding this?
A Yes.
Q What were you asked to do?
A To help Siobhan resolve this breach.
Q And what did you do in response to that?
A Met with Siobhan and tried to help her resolve the breach. But I didn’t really believe that what resolved the breach was her going to Keith and asking him legitimately to be the donor. So, I tried to help Siobhan look at why she would victimize herself and speak badly of others.
Q In your discussions with Siobhan, did Siobhan say she wanted to have the defendant be the donor of the sperm for a child?
A No, she said she did not want him to be the donor of the child.
Q Did you suggest to Siobhan that she and her wife should offer to have the defendant’s child?
A I don’t believe so. I — no.
Q Why not?
A Because I thought it was ridiculous, and it didn’t even seem to relate to really what the breach was.
Q Did Siobhan become aware she had committed an ethical breach against the defendant?
A Yes.
Q How?
A She was given feedback about it, at least by me and Pam [Cafritz], and I’m not sure if others….. I believe she discussed it with Loreta, too….
Q What does it mean to give feedback in this context?
A To alert her that her actions and behavior had caused some damage that she ideally would care about and want to correct.
Q What happened to Siobhan in terms of her employment?
A Well, she didn’t — I mean, she never resolved the issue with Keith to his satisfaction and wasn’t eligible to participate in, I think, new business opportunities that she likely would have if she had.
Q And when you say “eligible to participate in business opportunities,” do you mean because she had committed this breach with the defendant?
A Yes, and didn’t resolve it.
***********************
So here is something new. Lauren actually thinking that something Keith wanted her to do – to get Siobhan to go to Keith and ask him to donate his sperm – was “ridiculous.”
Keith could actually be wrong, according to Lauren.
This shows Lauren could at times think for herself.
Nevertheless, she went to Siobhan and counseled her about talking ill about Keith.
She, in a sense, failed. She did not help Siobhan succeed in curing her breach, which would have been for her to go to Keith and ask for his sperm. [I think it is ironic for Lauren desperately wanted Keith’s sperm to have an avatar baby with. So this is doubly cruel on the part of Keith]
By her failure, it caused Siobhan to lose certain Nixvm business opportunities. She was held back.
Lauren’s alleged honesty, a quality she rarely seems to ever express, seems to have come out here. Or was it something else?
Lauren may have not wanted Siobhan to heal her breach. Or more likely, Lauren did not want Siobhan asking for Keith’s sperm since she wanted that for herself. She wanted to have the avatar baby. Lauren may have doubted that Keith would have actually said no. She might have suspected he was only telling her that he would say no because he knew she wanted to have a child with him.
Lauren knew what a liar Keith was. She might have deliberately not tried to do as Keith instructed because of her own desire to have Keith’s sperm for herself.
Note also that Pam got into the act. Even with that demon supporting the notion that Siobhan should beg for Keith’s sperm, it did not work.
That is probably because Siobhan did not want Keith to be the father of her child. She did not know and was not told that he would refuse to give her his sperm. She wanted to have her own family and not be under the monster’s control.
Still, Siobhan did not leave Keith. She stayed in Nxivm and may still be a member of Nxivm.
She was loyal after he was arrested. She worked under Allison Mack for years. In fact, Allison advanced above her in rank quite possibly because Siobhan was held back by her ethical breach.
She should have begged for his sperm? This all sounds mad. Adults being punished and sent to correct one another – for a breach of not wanting a monster’s sperm.
They are all completely insane.
And what can one say of the turd Raniere, the most insane of all?
He did not want to have a child with Siobhan, he said. He probably heard Siobhan was contemplating having a child.
His insanity made him insist that Siobhan ask him for sperm – it was a great insult that she had chosen the sperm of an anonymous donor – so damaging to the mission that she didn’t – even though he admitted he was not going to give it to her anyway.
I also love the part where he is explaining to Lauren how foolish Siobhan is for not wanting him to be the father because, after all, that would mean she would get half off of the cost of Rainbow.
While most good fathers pay for the education of their children, the ethicist Keith was going to force Siobhan to put her child in his creepy Rainbow program and make her pay what would amount to most of her income to pay for it.
She would have to deny her child many other things to pay even half price [$5,000 per month].
That Lauren would participate in this madness does not speak well for her. That Siobhan would stay with this asshole doesn’t say much about her.
These are all extraordinarily sick individuals.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
[…] She is mentioned in Lauren’s testimony. See Lauren Salzman Sent to Mind-F–k Gay Woman Who Did Not Want Keith as a Sperm Donor […]
“These are all extraordinarily sick individuals.”
Well-said.
I just cannot believe that Prefect passed the baton to Lauren. Yes, yes. *PAM* knew…dead Pam. Not moms. Never! Right. Vanguard and Prefect just discussed the weather and wet kisses.
Come on with this bs.
I wonder why the prosecution asked her about this? This shows that for some things Lauren did have free will. I hope the judge uses this in his sentencing. Lauren had her own will power.
This shows Keith as a superficial man. But not sure how it helped the prosecution.
Anything that showed how f*cked up NXIVM is helped the prosecution. There was such a YUCK factor involved that the jury took more time to order lunch than to quickly fill out the paperwork with the guilty verdicts.
thanks for explaining…
Hello all, I stopped reading and commenting this past summer when the FR lost direction and became about everything else except Nxivm. Wow to my surprise when I opened it the other day and found out about The Lost Women of Nxivm. All I can say is Bravo 👏 to Frank, Heidi and Kristen and everyone else appearing on the show. God bless you all for continuing the good fight. When is the next episode?
Interesting point, but Frank does need to find a direction at some point, after he moves on from nxivm. I was thinking politics.
I was thinking exposing Amway and other MLM scams. I think Frank is too honest to be a politician.
You should quit your day job at Frank’s place and move on to stand up comedy. You would kill it!
Frank has already expressed interest in exposing Amway and other MLM scams, both when I first talked with him about a year and a half years ago and a few days ago as well.
I meant a political blog.
A political blog wouldn’t be unique or very useful, given the strong partisan nature of today’s politics.
Amway is fully involved in politics. The families have given an estimated $200 million over the years and the wife of Amway co-chairman of the board is the Secretary of Education. Many other MLMs are big political contributors as well. During Herbalife’s recent dustup with the FTC, they had a couple of former FTC Commissioners on their side. Madeline Albright, former Secretary of State, does advertising for Herbalife. I could go on, but you get the picture.
To sk – You have been missed. I hope you come back to regularly contributing.
Thanks. I just might.
Remember the name “Mark Busse”, he thanked nxivm coach Kristin Kreuk (and Mark Vicente & Lucas Roberts) for their “encouragement” on his May 2015 nxivm intensive, thus exposing Kreuk as a liar for saying she left in 2013, he is on Instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/markbusse/
Kristin Kreuk is following him on her public page and he posted this comment:
“Right back at ya friend. Have a wonderful holiday and I hope we can reconnect soon.”
Did she recruit him or coach him? He called her a friend.
It’s not illegal to thank somebody if you do something a couple of years after they recommended it to you. Also, Kristin Crook(ed) never claimed she completely left NXIVM in 2013, just that her contact was minimal. You’re welcome, Mr. Sultan. LOL
He didn’t say he was recruited two years earlier. Kreuk specifically said she left in 2013 and only her contact with members was minimal. We know that is a lie.
Kreuk didn’t recruit or coach Busse. “Encouragement” and “reconnect” is code for them having a sexual affair.
If Hildreth finds out he’ll track down that bastard and lick Kreuk’s juices off Busse’s dick.
Also, the Instagram poster posted on this Instagram post:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pMayfAk9s/
“Just wanted to let you know that Frank Parlato is facing charges also. Charges of fraud and conspiracy. Yet he doesn’t necessary speak of those even though he has been fooling the IRS since he started. Frank isn’t who we think he is, one of the reasons he exposes nxivm so obsessively is because it is helping him to postpone his own trials.”
Exactly how does going after NXIVM postpone his own trial? In fact, had his trial occurred sooner, Frank would have made hay over the corrupt and lying (perjury) Bronfman, which would have only bolstered his case on the other charges.
Frank, are you aware someone has started an Instagram page to discredit you?
https://www.instagram.com/frankparlato_truth/
So far, two posts, 22 followers and following 65.
Both posts were “liked” by Toni Natalie through her “Fall of nx” page.
Could she have created it?
I am aware that someone created an Instagram account using my name and picture. I do not know who is behind it, nor do I care. When I fight, I fight with my own name and stand behind what I say. That gives strength and authority. I do not have time to worry about what cowards do – sneaking and skulking. Whoever it is, her or his lack of saying who is behind it is prima facie evidence of cowardice – and can only help me. An attack by cowards can only elevate me. As to who it is, it seems likely to be Toni Natalie – but it may be someone from Nxivm.
Frank, you just broke your own rule about calling anonymous people cowards! Welcome to my corner: https://frankreport.com/?s=corner LOL
Scott, I don’t mind if people comment on this website anonymously. That’s a little different. But if you are going to wage war with someone, have the courage to confront the person in your own name. That gives a person strength in my opinion. Using you own name when you fight brings strength and using anonymity to fight brings weakness, in my opinion.
I know, I was just kidding around. But I agree that using your real name provides strength (and accountability, consistency, and responsibility) and using an anonymous name results in weakness (and the opposite of the above and cowardess).
I love your energy, Frank. Very motivating. Keep fighting! We should create a Fans of Frank Parlato Instagram account. Who’s in???
Go, Frank!!
You should put your energy into a Friends of Shutting Down MLM Scams instead. And then actually DO something, rather than just be rabid fans.
Dear Scott…I can totally be the rabid fan if I want to. Your controlling ways will not stop me.
Go Frank!! 📣 🥳 🔥
This is what the next Nxivm generation looks like. At first, the person claims to seek truth and is against the rapist branding cult. Then the Mexican E.S.P.coaches get in this person’s head and the Barbara Boucheys and Natalies persuade her (Bruna Pereira) Frank is bad and Nxivm is good. Next thing you know, the person is writing letters to Raniere and planning to meet a coach from Nxivm. Nxivm is not dead. It still functions.
Looking at the pictures from the trip Barbara Bouchey took to Munich, you will see what a happy manipulative criminal who got away with it looks like.
While it’s entirely possible Ms. Hotaling is just saving face with this statement made in October 2019, I think it is worth noting that she has publicly disavowed ESP/NXIVM via her personal website in a lengthy statement. Just wanted to post this as you stated “she may be a NXIVM member today” without annotating this statement made recently disavowing the cult and specifically “those who remain loyal to the founder”. See below. http://www.siobahnhotaling.com/
Hi Frank — Do you believe Hotaling is lying in her statement on her website and that is why you wrote that she “may be a NXIVM member today?” Back in August 2018, you included her in your list of the high ranking and powerful members still in NXIVM. Is the source who told you she was still in NXIVM reliable? Have you figured out which sources of yours are feeding you the bad info you’ve posted or who tends to give you the correct information more times than not? Just like you discovered about Toni, not everyone tells you the truth.
Frank probably used the word “may” because he didn’t know whether Hotaling is a current NXIVM member or not. Is there something about the word “may” that is unclear to you? Hotaling “may” have still been a NXIVM member in August 2018 and backdated when she left in an attempt to take some pressure off of herself for not leaving earlier, or Frank’s source may have been mistaken. Hotaling “may” be lying to take the pressure off of herself, as NXIVM is filled with liars….
All of the above are possibilities. Just was wondering if Frank had seen the statement or possibly reached out to Siobhan herself to get a comment before speculating (he posted a story a few months ago stating she was “alive and well and teaching NXIVM tech”). Of course, she could be lying – I just think if she wasn’t, it was a rare moment of an ex-NXIVAN coming forward truthfully and publicly disavowing it.
I think Siobhan Hotaling has no choice but to disavow her relationship with Nxivm. I don’t know if she knew so little about the nefarious side of Nxivm as she claims. I think it is worthy of exploration.
A Twisted NXIVM Holiday Tale Based on the Truth.
The Vanguard and his three Little Pimps.
Once Upon a time there was a Vanguard who was the Third Smartest Man in the World.
This Vanguard had Three Little Pimps to help him procure young women to mentor.
There was Pammy Pimp.
There was Allie Pimp.
And there was Lauren Pimp.
One day, Pammy Pimp became very, very sick.
The wise, all-knowing Vanguard knew exactly how to cure Pammy Pimp of her illness.
“Here, Pammy Pimp, is some medicine to help cure you of your sickness,” said the brilliant Vanguard.
“Take these Doo-Doo pills and wash them down with this white milky liquid made of Mistletoe and Hemlock.”
Isn’t the Vanguard a caring soul?
Before you know it, Pammy Pimp was cured and now Pammy Pimp is frolicking about in the Big Bordello in the Sky!
Hoo Ray for the Vanguard!
To celebrate the Vanguard’s curing of Pammy Pimp, the Vanguard got together with Allie Mack Daddy Pimp and Lauren Pimp for a little Group Fellatio.
Hoo Ray for Group Fellatio!
And then the big bad orange-haired Donald Trump, the Trump who stole the Vanguard’s Christmas, sent his police in with machine guns to break up the Group Fellatio.
This story has no moral because in NXIVMLAND, there is no morality.
NXIVMLAND also lacks common sense and decency and humanity.
But NXIVMLAND does have Lucifer.
May Lucifer bless the Vanguard.
May Lucifer bless Pammy Pimp.
May Lucifer bless Allie Pimp.
May Lucifer bless Lauren Pimp.
There were far more than just three NXIVM pimps. I believe the “milky-white” liquid included Raniere’s sperm. And a good night to all….
WOW, Scott that was your last statement to us last night? If you would have died overnight and never written another word here, those would be your last famous words: Raniere’s “milky white” liquid…..
Shadowstate,
Below is a link to a psychological profile of Scott Johnson derived from Scott’s own posted comments. I believe you will find it entertaining. 😉
https://frankreport.com/2019/12/20/scott-johnson-amway-is-a-genuine-scam/#comment-115164
Happy Holidays!
Thank you Nice Guy. This is the 1st time I’ve smiled in days. Scott loves getting verbally beat up on here and I enjoy watching it. The two faced girlfriend was a good one.
I agree the reason Salzman didn’t bring up Raniere’s sperm with Hotaling because she wanted it for herself. Talk about ridiculous….
Hotaling sure changes a lot from one photograph to another, just like this woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeUrC2gR30
Which just happens to be the Festivus episode, which just so happens to be TODAY, December 23rd: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=seinfeld+festivus+full+episode LOL
It is ironic that not even Siobhan wanted the limpy Don Juan’s sperm. And Keith reacted like a petulant child, with hurt feelings that not every woman wanted his stinky and infected spunk.
Maybe Siobhan isn’t as stupid as she pretends to be.
I think Hotaling is very much as stupid as you can imagine, whether she’s pretending or not.
This is the way the Raniere and his criminal mobsters worked over the entire flock of their high-value targets to keep them out of most income streams, to force them into taking more trainings and doing forced labor.
Those never involved with NXIVN & all your armchair pearls of wisdom can say “Why not just leave”? You really need to educate yourself on cults and what they do to people’s minds. Not what Scooter Boy is trying to sell you.
With even a hint of leaving, Raniere’s flying monkeys were sent in to mind-fuck you.
Once it was clear your mind was made up you were tapping out and you had any dirt on the leadership, Keith Raniere, Nancy Salzman, Kristin Keeffe, Clare Bronfman and their legal teams made you walk the years of useless litigation.
You had to beat NXIVM in court or they would never leave you alone.
Lauren didn’t want to help Siobhan because she herself wanted to be the mother of the avatar. Siobhan could not be an avatar mother. Lauren didn’t tell the jury that part. What really made it ridiculous to Lauren was the idea of Siobhan and her wide parenting an avatar child. Even though Keith said he wasn’t going to father her child even getting her to ask Keith offended Lauren to the core.
Dare I say it?
The Three Pimps — Pam the Pimp, Allison the Pimp and Lauren the Pimp — derived personal pleasure in Mind-F–king people.
The government’s star witness, Lauren Pimp Salzman, is insane just like her friend, Allison Pimp Mack.
NXIVM is a criminal gang designed for psychopaths, sociopaths and liars.
NXIVM is a Horror Show.
NXIVM is a Shit Storm of Insanity.
Anyone who talks about the “good” in NXIVM is either a liar or a fool.
Really, Mr. Shadow? You’ve never told us that before, Please, go on….LOL
Well Scott, you’ve been so busy with Amway that you have not had time to properly absorb my message.
Shadowstate- Nice comeback!!!
LMAO
Not according to the criminal Barbara Bouchey.
Don’t be surprised if Barbara Bouchey joins the new rejuvenated NXIVM.
Legatus Pro Tempore Nicki Clyne has already told Barbara that she is welcome back.
Raniere is the ultimate bitcher, a tantrum-throwing crybaby, except he uses ethical breaches instead stomping his feet or the like. He does the latter too, but in different physical ways. Every perception in the minds of others of himself that he feels is negative of himself—which means he cannot manipulate others towards his end goals—is “damaging“ to him, and either will kill him—an end state he doesn’t believe himself and only the brainwashed or morons could possibly believe—or will prevent him from using the same mechanisms to manipulate in the future. The irony is, he appears to be even more disintegrated and dependent than those he abuses by emphasizing the alleged disintegration’s and dependencies of others, though he tries to (failingly) hide it by psychologically and physically enforcing upon others himself as the standard from which to judge. Do emotionally mature people need to surround themselves with dozens of sycophants and enablers to feel better about themselves? Do they feel a constant need to minimize and diminish them or emphasize their negatives when they don’t get what they want? No. Those are the actions of bullies and abusers no matter their means.
That is why the compartmentalization of information is so common in cults, since if the followers could see the whole panorama of their situation, they would become aware, and that is why this practice is realized in two aspects. The aspect of life Everyday within the group and the aspect of how they are given access to information on a personal level, take into account that Keith puts people against each other, that way he is the only person of real trust for them.
Really, who cares? They were just another clique — like those found in high school and elsewhere — who thought they were better than everyone else who wasn’t a member and treated outsiders as if they were less than them, not caring whether they screwed them over or messed up their lives. Some great set of ethics these people adhered to.