It has long been rumored – in part by things Keith Raniere himself hinted at – that his mother sexually abused him when he was young and continued it for years – even into his teens.
According to sources, Raniere claimed his mother made him “dance” with her – and whether that was his euphemism for sexual encounters is hard to say with certainty. He gave other hints that she was very physical with him as a boy. Exceedingly so. But then again, he was a pathological liar – so it is hard to know. His mother is dead; she died in 1978 when Raniere was 18, so the other witness to this suspected activity is dead. We may never know. Raniere is not likely to talk.
In the post below, Shivani evaluates what early influences might have changed the lad from a boy into a monster.
It raises the question of whether demons are born or made. I believe this is worthy of study since Keith Raniere did become a monster. How did it happen? Was it, in part, because of his mother – his sole companion for years – alone in a big lonely house in Sufferen County?
If we can understand how it happened, perhaps we can prevent it from happening to other boys. Perhaps we can muster a little understanding for Raniere also. Is his mother to blame for him getting off to such an ugly life? Did she contribute immensely to his evil nature? Did she, in short, sexually abuse the lad? Or neglect him through drunkenness?
Or was this all Raniere? Was he born under a bad star and the devils rejoiced when he took birth?
What about his environment made him the wicked scoundrel he became? And he is wicked. Some people think he is just your average conman that ran his con a little longer than most. I disagree. I think Raniere will be long-remembered as one of the great criminal minds of human history. Give it time to play out. If his mother abused him or not – he, in turn, abused so many women – and for so long – and these were not just losers in the lower stratum of society. He led most of these horribly abused women into believing [some still do] that he was giving them the choicest spiritual and intellectual gifts – while leading them to destruction – purposely.
It is unparalleled.
Did his reign of evil reign begin with his mother? Here is Shivani’s view:
By Shivani
Keith Raniere’s predatory radar, I have the feeling, became inflamed and seriously skewed when he was beginning to experience much more fully, his abstract mind. That would mean, depending upon the child’s development, between the ages of 5-7 and generally, averaging out at age 6.
He might have been more sound, more “okay” before that, but we don’t know. Probably he doesn’t know, either.
If trauma comes early, it is tougher to identify and to start healing, if possible. It is a very steep climb to help a “selfdom” to reestablish its functionality, if that person has been unable to live on the inside or on the outside, with any nascent “selfdom” already blooming or growing.
Ground zero is often found to have already been demolished.
Montessori training and practice taught me about the emergent childhood faculties, woven together with enough language and experience to begin to use an ability to think in abstracts, to consider thoughts and situations, without the predominantly and naturally more personalized and “me” focus of earlier developmental phases or stages. As mentioned, abstract thinking abilities tend to begin to arise at about age six.
Each stage prepares the way for the next level of maturing.
By process of elimination and looking at Raniere’s early life, it looks to me as if his mother was the one who most traumatized him, up close and personally. Plus, his father withdrew from the household. There was likely to be too much time stuck alone with her, and with her not being a stabilizer, never mind a nourisher. She is said to have had problems with booze, with her physical health, etc. She might not have been coping, during much of her son’s early life.
There had to have been too much inappropriate neediness, too many demands for him to take, in my opinion. The child is abandoned, cannot just be the child and be mothered or fathered, be able to depend, to be the child. The parent becomes the child; it is too much pressure. Some children live through it and manage to stay intact, and some don’t. It can become too much misfortune.
It seems to me boundaries were not crossed; no safe boundaries were ever formed at all. This probably included bewildering sexual behavior or emotionalism coming at him as too much, too soon. And no real alleviation, safe harbor. Imagine the potential for mental splittage and for feeling the buildup of tidal waves of anger, an absolutely twisted “mental” health. And consciously or unconsciously aimed at Raniere’s first and most personal embodiment of woman, of femininity.
Raniere might have had to cope with situations which he was not emotionally or rationally able to handle or to process, right about the time when most children enter first grade. This could have been happening to him on a regular or repetitive basis, without him being able to exert any influence or control, as he would’ve been too young. He might not have even been able to understand that he needed help, or even to really protect himself, to convey or to ideate what was traumatizing him. He would’ve needed a lot of help, and it looks as though he had no one alert enough around him to get him any help. An only child is easier to isolate, whether on purpose or accidentally.
It seems that Raniere began using his radar to inflict harm right when he began to reach 10-12. He couldn’t control or even really recognize his desires, but he figured out how to disguise them, through trial and error, and soon enough, through research.
We have heard of his rather gleeful remarks to a young female acquaintance when he was 11 or so, and he told her that she had given him the material with which he could blackmail her, hold her hostage. Further, it is reported that Raniere distressed her for a longer while with mean, threatening, contemptuous phone calls.
He was likely to feel very alone in his thoughts and/or feelings that he was unable, eventually unwilling, to share with any concerned or observant parent, caretaker or friend. He might not have liked to have genuine friends. This kind of tentative analysis doesn’t excuse his choices, but might hint about how ingrained was his pathology and for how long it has controlled him. His hostility appears to run so deep and so unconsciously, and later he used his intellect to protect his growing and malevolent compunctions and intentions.
It seems as if he drowned at about six years of age and was only able to resurrect himself as a kind of monster, who had gone through inner cyclones and without the armor of conscionable discrimination. Apparently, he latched onto deviance, anger, alienation, desires to commit sexual terrorism and a need to be seen as godlike, right while he exercised his rage and perversions over people.
This is what would get him off; tight, rigid control of his sexual circumstances. He absolutely felt compelled to never let anyone control him. It had to be his rules, it seems. He turned that fearsome, inner panic of his, into his own compulsion to dominate anyone and everyone else.
The psychotic mirror. Upside down.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
Who cares why he did what he did. Stop asking why, why, why because it’s a futile exercise. The important question is…is he connected to the spider web of world wide blackmail and sex trafficking of minors. The answer is yes.
[…] Did Raniere’s Evil Begin When He Was Abused by His Mother? […]
Why don’t we ask Karen Unterriener – she was KR’s main girlfriend at the time of his mother’s death. If he discussed mommy des rest at all, it was with Karen.
Good idea. I just doubt Keith talked to anyone about it. I also doubt he left a verbal trail if he had something to do with the deaths of Pam or Barbara Jeske. I have more hope that Kristin Keeffe or Karen U have info on Gina or Kristin Snyder. I don’t know how Keith could have pulled those possible murders off on his own. But, knowing Keith, the ones who “know stuff” also have dirty hands.
agree!
Clearly narcissistic. Some are made. Some are born. Like Hitler, the death of his mother (who, in Hitler’s case, was loving) may have played a role, if the father was “abusive”.
But abuse does not mean physically abusive. It could mean no boundaries being imposed. It could mean verbal put-downs.
Whatever happened, Raniere was set on conquering. His first scheme was huge — illegal in ways — but huge.
His second scheme, NXIVM, was also huge. It traversed countries. So he did have a way of building and conquering.
In my opinion, he had the financial conquering accomplished.
Now, he only needed to conquer people — pretty starlets, in this case — and was equally good at that.
Former abused children don’t go around abusing others as adults. He is a has narcissistic personality and that is not related to his mother’s abuse.
AGREE, Outsider!
…I’m an “insider” from the early days — Raniere molested my sister, Gina Hutchinson as a minor —and brainwashed her to a brutal untimely end he calculated for her — she may have been murdered or assisted in a “suicide.”
Raniere’s psycho. Natural born malignant narcissist — very destructive and dangerous.
Raniere used lies about his mother (his own mother) just to get kind people to feel sorry for him —manipulate them.
Raniere is like Ted Bundy — the 70’s serial killer who faked injuries to catch girls who came to his aid.
Only Raniere faked ‘emotional’ injuries he claimed were inflicted by his own mother, Vera — claiming she was an abusive alcoholic.
Raniere’s Dad, James, has contradicted him on record about these lies and there are many clues that Raniere’s claims about Vera are completely false.
Raniere sued his father, btw, just like he did anyone else who called him out on his lies and aberrant behavior — which includes raping preteen virgins along with the torture and branding.
Natural. Born. Psycho!
That’s the number one reason why actually. Some children come out OK and realize how NOT to treat people and some replicate it sadly.
[…] Source link […]
Was Raniere’s mom of thin build by chance?
And did she have a forest trying to escape her undergarments?
Bwahahahaha! Good one
Isn’t it fun to psychoanalyze someone you’ve never met? You can project pretty much anything you like on the subject, and pretend it’s science!
Thanks, but I’d rather stick to what we know. He’s an only child whose parents divorced. Like a million other kids. So that tells us precisely nothing. Ditto the fact that his mom once apparently made him dance with her. I don’t believe that means she raped him, because it means nothing of the kind. Baseless speculation.
Judging him by the things he did, Raniere is a run of the mill grifter who got lucky when he hooked the millionaire Bronfmans into his scam. He was a clumsy criminal who left evidence all over the place and got carried away with his imagined power until he finally got prosecuted. Hardly a criminal mastermind. Physically unintimidating and temperamentally a coward, with a small-potatoes vision, Nxivm wasn’t much of a criminal enterprise. He was half-smart and failed to even have much imagination as a pervert.
The Joker he ain’t.
Mxivm and DOS are of course tragic in part. People lost money and a bunch of women got scarred. But I think it’s also a joke. It has a strong element of the ridiculous about it, this whole sad tale. A couple of mediocre TV actresses championing female empowerment through the cult of this clownish, deeply misogynistic man. The spectacle of a crowd of upper middle class women eager to bed this ugly troll. The Dalai Lama singing his praises for a stiff fee. And speaking of stiff, the hirsute harem-master’s inability to get there.
Talk about The Human Comedy…
Acteon, you have a point about over-analyzing based on a paucity of evidence – I believe the only testimony about this comes from Raniere himself, and he’s of course a questionable source.
But Raniere’s mother was sick and died, so that’s at least significantly more traumatic than a run of the mill broken home. I think his father may also have said something about it being a bad situation.
But again, it doesn’t excuse anything – particularly, really, because Raniere posed himself as being so conscious about ethics, mental health (“integration”), and things like that. He should have been more aware than most that he was doing things that were unethical and illegal, and that he was suffering from gambling and sex addictions and needed to seek real help.
Anony-maker we ALL end our lives first sick then dead. What do you mean?
My point was that she got sick, and died, while he was young – that’s more than just the run of the mill family breakup.
Very well stated as always, Shivani, however your premise is entirely false when it comes to Keith Alan Raniere.
Keith deliberately circulated those despicably false rumors about his own mother himself to elicit sympathy.
His father
— James, I believe —whom Keith once sued, refuted Keith’s lies and rumors about his mother on record long ago.
There is further no evidence to substantiate Keith’s tales about Vera, his Mom, at aIl. It has been researched. I started probing Keith on the topic myself 30 years ago.
Look closely at those pictures of Keith as a child. He was not neglected or unhappy. Someone cared enough to take many of them and that someone wasn’t stumbling around too drunk to focus a camera, either.
Those rumors about Vera were all a tool of manipulation Keith used on me, my sister, Gina, and our own very kindhearted, sympathetic mother who treated Keith like her own son for years bc she felt sorry for him having lost his mother at such a young age.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Keith killed Vera himself.
Raniere operated something akin to the way Ted Bundy faked injuries to draw in kind-hearted, young female strangers.
Bundy would appear in a cast pretending to be struggling with lifting some object and when he caught the attention and sympathy of a girl who offered or agreed to help, Bundy promptly shoved her in his van to rape, brutally torture and murder her.
Keith used the same method on an emotional level to elicit sympathy only to capture his prey.
Once his victims realized it was a trap, it was too late.
Raniere is a natural born malignant narcissistic psychopath.
His privileged youth as an adored and cherished only child did not matter — except that he insisted on being followed around with a camera like a toddler as an adult to feel special.
If anything, Keith probably secretly despised the more kind and compassionate sort of girl because she was more like his mother and made him feel weak and dependent (as he was) I and wrecked his delusion of absolute control and power.
I love reading your lyrical writing, Shivani, and would love reading your take on the truth not the lies. With Raniere and his ass drone clones, it’s often hard to tell the difference.
Shivani,
I agree with your assertion that Raniere as a child may have suffered some form of child abuse or neglect.
My personal belief is that people are born psychopath or sociopaths.
The Bad Seed is very real….
……And if you add child abuse to the mix, as you assert, you have a living breathing nightmare on your hands.
Niceguy:
So add you to the list of punks who thinks everyone is a victim.
Keith Raniere’s Mommy hugged him too tight and he got tingly feelings all over his body.
Keith Raniere is a victim.
Claire Bronfman is a victim.
Sara Bronfman is a victim.
Allison Mack is a victim.
Nancy Salzman is a victim.
Lauren Salzman is a victim.
Everyone should go free!
Yeah, shadow. Glad you finally got the point of this thread. We are all saying that Keith is an innocent victim because his Mom touched his junk. Hopefully, the will of FR people will win and Keith will be released from prison! We can then herald him as an innocent hero.
“Keith will be released from prison! We can then herald him as an innocent hero.”
Well then, “Three Cheers for NXIVM! and Viva Executive Success!”
Happy Vanguard Week 2020!
Sarcasm goes right over your head, Mr. Shadow. LOL
Shadowstate,
Regarding your interpretation of my comment posted on October 29, 2019 at 11:07 am, I need to be candid. You have poor reading comprehension skills.
Nowhere in my comment did I mention there should be sympathy for Psychopaths.
I have come to the conclusion over time that your claims of being a high school and college scholar are meritless. You frequently misread articles and grossly plagiarize sources, including Wikipedia.
I believe you would greatly benefit from taking a Community College English or Creative Writing course. If the courses at a community college are not financially unattainable, perhaps at your local community center, free writing workshops are being offered.
I believe you are a well-meaning, caring individual. Please take my candor and honesty as it is meant, with good intentions.
I look forward to reading your next article not involving Allison Mack.
😉
“Sarcasm goes right over your head, Mr. Shadow. LOL”
So Scott Johnson, when you told me all I had to do to succeed in Amway was to have more self-confidence, you were being sarcastic.
Shadow has a point. The article may claim that its proposed explanation of Ranier’s behavior doesn’t excuse it, but that is what it inevitably does. If has sad sad childhood formed the man, if supposed neglect and abuse as a child are the reason he turned out as he did, then it is logically impossible to hold the adult Raniere fully responsible for his actions. His mommy made him do it. And if his childhood is not the reason he became the adult he became, then why bring it up? If mommy isn’t responsible, why mention her?
It’s like that sappy movie Good Will Hunting. “It’s not your fault! It’s not your fault! It’s not your fault!” Typical Hollywood. It’s the mantra of our age. Nothing is ever your fault.
Name one person who had a perfectly happy childhood. No? So we all have a ready made excuse.
Sorry, I’m not having it. We are responsible for our actions. So let’s quit blaming our mommies and develop a little strength of character. No more excuses, and quit the whining. And grow the fuck up.
Excuse me for stating the obvious, but is it possible that Keith could be punished/imprisoned for 15yrs to life, AND we can discuss his upbringing to look for clues as to why he is who he is?
EXACTLY, Nutjob! That’s what I think we’re trying to do here – not pin blame somewhere besides Keith. Burt because he is a bit different than your average cult leader / narcissist / sociopath or whatever he is, I think it’s well worth looking for clues. For example, why do some killers come from “perfectly fine” families, while others who’ve had horrible beginnings grow to be productive, insightful adults? I for one am curious.
Didn’t most of the NXIVM’s ”victims” submit willingly? Even the so-called colateral doesn’t seem enough to go through all this BS unless deep down you want to do it.
No fan of Raniere’s but still I see this.
I would like to add that Queefs teeth look like chickletts. I see now why Marie White paints Keith with Buck teeth.
Before I was even 7 years old, Uncle Ricky had molested me numerous times. Mom never cared. I couldn’t even wake up for elementary school without mom scolding me for losing my panties during the night. I was always too exhausted to get up, so mom would toss a cold cup of water in my face. I’d sit in class trying to peel my skin off, starting with my fingers. I could never quite get past the tips. I lost many panties before second grade. My dad sodomized numerous little girls and boys. I hope he and Raniere can one day be cellmates. I have never raped or killed anyone. I have always wanted a safe house for girls like me, not destruction like vanguard. Can you imagine if I blamed my mom for all my problems? Instead, I own my shortcomings. I admit when I’m wrong and rather die than lie. Because the abuse happened at such a young age The doc says I have a personality disorder. I create names and personalities to fight particular battles for me when people hurt me. Shivani, I’m not sure if you were the best person to analyze Keith’s childhood. Without personal experience to rape and molestation and or at least one reference to any book concerning the subject matter. Once again, Frank, let’s you write a meatless article.
In my opinion of course.
Peaches:
I am sorry for what happened to you.
It should not happen to anyone, particularly not a child.
Peaches – very hell you have described here, my blood is running cold for you, vengeance is an icy rising flood…
But here you are, named after the best gift of summer, full of mirth and righteous anger getting on with things, its the assumption that the fixed circs we were born into are bound to define us for the rest of our days that can be just as damaging as the abuse. Some people feel they have the right to describe the implications of another’s pain, at one remove, some people just assume the narrative voice – against which your first person account will always be found unreliable, yet still so exploitable. keep making sense of your own. Really hope all goes well for you, I’ll be praying it does.
Thanks. For some reason, this article just rubbed be the wrong way. I used to be lost in the mind of a victim and realized one day it’s a pathetic way to live. Screw being a victim. Besides Uncle Chester the molester is dead and daddy dirtbag is rotting in hell. He will die there just like Raniere. I love this site for exposing the evil. I can relate to some of the madness from personal experience and look forward to January’s post.
Peaches, this is just so brave and generous of you to share your horrid, childhood experience but does go to show that you among many are not of the same ilk as Raniere and victims of abuse are not automatically — rarely are they, in fact — abusers themselves.
That’s no excuse and I don’t think Raniere ever was a victim of abuse himself.
I think getting kicked in the nuts a time or two by a chick defending herself from being raped is the closest he’s ever come to being abused — before getting locked up in prison that is .
Thank you, peaches!
We could all consider your psychoanalysis of this monster, Shivani, or we can consider another theory: he was just a con man….and the con got bigger and bigger.
Nice explanation and analysis, Shivani.
From what I’ve read, emotional incest can be almost as damaging as physical incest. So even if Raniere just had an inappropriately intertwined and co-dependent relationship with his mother, that could still have been almost as bad as possible.
I think it’s likely that Raniere was predisposed to be a sociopath. But research shows that not all people with those innate characteristics become harmful manipulators or predators.
In the end, it doesn’t excuse Raniere, but it’s also not black-and-white.
I agree with you, AnonyMaker. There is no excuse, not only for Raniere, but for those who went into his “path” and kept allowing themselves to support what was happening. Also, Clare Bronfman looks, to my observation, to be as incurable as Raniere. She just has more protection around her and might get to skate. Small sentence for being steeped in vileness is not all right at all. Hopefully she will receive more charges. But that is seeming iffy right now. We’ll see.
Nancy Salzman might not be psycho, but her whole act seems sociopathic to me. I get a feeling that she thinks that she has this whole thing beat, with little real consequences. So unremoresful for the harm she has caused, in the name of self-help. It is very hard for me not to feel angry about this.
I’m so relieved we can blame Raniere’s “Mommy Dearest” for all of his problems, and let’s not forget the (expensive?) pyscho-school his parents sent him to. If he had only attended a public school, he probably would have had the sh!t beat out of him enough to keep himself under control. Oh well, I’m sure drunken mommy and disappearing daddy meant well.
Things are not quite so “black and white” in real life, and you are old enough to realize it. I am not “blaming” his mother. I am looking at his conditioning and his childhood’s environmental circumstances.
Stop with the adolescent perception level you seem to want to hold onto and expand, grow the fuck up. Learn something. She was part of Raniere’s environment, primal to it. She could not BE much more primal, as his mother.
I do not excuse what he made of himself but still look for insights from his background.
Shivani, it wouldn’t surprise me either if we went to the house he grew up in had woods in the back where he tortured and killed animals. Also, since Frank found Natalie’s yearbook, can we see Ranieres as well?
The Frank Report has hundreds of stories detailing how NXIVM’s gangsters terrorized people.
Just go through the massive archives for details.
Four years of archives.
Twenty years or more of terrorism.
Not just Raniere but the Bronfmans and the Salzmans and Allison Mack and numerous other NXIVM thugs, gangsters and terrorists.
All of these gangsters victimized people.
Hundreds of people victimized.
But here we have a story written from an alternate universe.
A universe where even the most rotten people in NXIVM are victims deserving of sympathy.
If Raniere is a victim, then everyone in NXIVM is a victim.
This same writer in the past has downplayed the suffering of true NXIVM victims like John Tighe, Rick Ross, Frank Parlato and “Danielle.”
“Why does Mr. Parlato have to go and make a fuss about something everyone has already seen in a James Coburn movie?”
“Mr. Parlato just doesn’t have a good sense of humor and has spent years being pissed off about some Monopoly money and the lawsuits he earned for noticing where the money didn’t go. Then he got fired, hounded and sued for saving $26 million for some zombies, you might say.”
“Why didn’t Rick Alan Ross get the joke and he could have saved himself about 14 years of Nxivm litigation and harassment?”
“Mr. Tighe bitches and moans about getting railroaded into prison over some fun porn which Clare and the litigation hounds sent him as a present.”
‘The young woman held in captivity for a couple of years should not have been so argumentative with Flabturd, her god and savior.”
https://frankreport.com/2019/08/03/allison-mack-has-an-unwanted-drummer-and-researcher-who-shadows-her/
rica was a nation that chased down evil people and brought them to justice.
Americans can choose to either be victims or survivors.
But there are still great Americans who are willing to hunt down aSo everyone is a victim?
Keith Raniere is a victim.
Pam Cafritz is a victim.
Barb Bouchey is a victim.
Toni Natalie is a victim.
Nancy Salzman is a victim.
Allison Mack is a victim.
Lauren Salzman is a victim.
Please shed your tears for these victims.
And the real victims, the people who were exploited and enslaved.
The people whose computers were hacked.
The people who were branded and blackmailed and extorted will just have to suck it all up and join the pity party.
Back in 1945 did anyone shed tears for Hitler because he supposedly had monochordism?
https://alt.history.british.narkive.com/xKWsFmvR/did-hitler-really-have-only-one-testicle
Where are America’s heroes?
Where were the people willing to fight back against the gangsters and terrorists of NXIVM?
America has become a nation of victims.
In the old days, the days when America was a great nation Amend kill slave masters and terrorists.
The men and women of America’s military.
And America still has leaders willing to brutally kill the bad guys who threaten America.
No wonder the pusillanimous politicians of New York, Illinois and California hate Donald Trump, the Andrew Jackson of our time.
(Pusillanimous means “showing a lack of courage or determination; timid.”)
The other day the slave master and terrorist head of ISIS Abu Bakr Al Bagdadi was hunted down like the rabid dog he was and destroyed.
Like Keith Raniere, Al Bagdadi had sex slaves.
And guess what.
Donald Trump did not apologize for killing Al Bagdadi and his followers.
Donald Trump was proud of killing Al Bagdadi and his two wives and three children.
They were all servants of Satan and deserved to die.
Americans can either be victims or survivors.
What’s to apologize for?
And Donald Trump was proud of killing the Satanic spawn of Osama bin Laden, Hamza bin Laden.
The commenter Actaeon made a great point a while back.
If only the women who were abused by Allison Pimp Mack united and fought back and smashed her and her camera to pieces there would have been no blackmail.
And if only these same women had taken a sharp instrument and given Keith Raniere a spontaneous gender reassignment surgery, the sexual slavery would have ended abruptly.
And if only these same women had jammed Clare Bronfman’s head up her horse’s rear end, the Bronfman witches would have stopped financing the NXIVM gang of criminals and terrorists.
Here is a Washington Post link to President Trump’s press conference describing how America’s great military sent Al Bagdadi and his gangsters straight tom hell.
No where will you find any apologies for what was done.
The same should be done to all of the gangsters and terrorists of NXIVM.
Trump’s news conference on Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi’s death, annotated,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/28/trumps-news-conference-abu-bakr-al-baghdadis-death-annotated/
Americans can choose to either be victims or
survivors.
So everyone is a victim?
Keith Raniere is a victim.
Pam Cafritz is a victim.
Barb Bouchey is a victim.
Toni Natalie is a victim.
Nancy Salzman is a victim.
Allison Mack is a victim.
Lauren Salzman is a victim.
Please shed your tears for these victims.
And the real victims, the people who were exploited
and enslaved.
The people whose computers were hacked.
The people who were branded and blackmailed and
extorted will just have to suck it all up and join the
pity party.
Back in 1945 did anyone shed tears for Hitler
because he supposedly had monochordism?
Where are America’s heroes?
Where were the people willing to fight back against
the gangsters and terrorists of NXIVM?
America has become a nation of victims.
In the old days, the days when America was a great
nation, Amend kill slave masters and terrorists.
The men and women of America’s military.
And America still has leaders willing to brutally kill
the bad guys who threaten America.
No wonder the pusillanimous politicians of New
York, Illinois and California hate Donald Trump,
the Andrew Jackson of our time.
(Pusillanimous means “showing a lack of courage
or determination; timid.”)
Donald Trump did not apologize for killing Al
Baghdadi and his followers.
Donald Trump was proud of killing Al Baghdadi and
his two wives and three children.
They were all servants of Satan and deserved to die.
Americans can either be victims or survivors.
What’s to apologize for?
And Donald Trump was proud of killing the Satanic
spawn of Osama bin Laden, Hamza bin Laden.
The commenter Actaeon made a great point a while
back.
If only the women who were abused by Allison
Pimp Mack united and fought back and smashed
her and her camera to pieces there would have been
no blackmail.
And if only these same women had taken a sharp
instrument and given Keith Raniere a spontaneous
gender reassignment surgery, the sexual slavery
would have ended abruptly.
And if only these same women had jammed Clare
Bronfman’s head up her horse’s rear end, the
Bronfman witches would have stopped financing
the NXIVM gang of criminals and terrorists.
Here is a Washington Post link to President Trump’s
press conference describing how America’s great
military sent Al Bagdadi and his gangsters straight
tom hell.
Nowhere will you find any apologies for what was
done.
The same should be done to all of the gangsters and
terrorists of NXIVM.
Trump’s news conference on Abu Bakr al Baghdadi’s death, annotated,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/28/trumps-news-conference-abu-bakr-al-baghdadis-death-annotated/
Do you give yourself permission to get loaded up for every Monday Night Football, or did something else cause the door to fall off the liquor cabinet?
NutzJob,
LMAO
Trump never said or implied he was proud of killing the three children. He blamed Baghdadi for being a coward and bringing the children with him when he fled.
1. Does he have siblings?
2. Father still around?
3. He is a narcissistic, my opinion. So was Hitler. Hitler had a father who beat him to the point of near death.
He adored his mother, who also died young…..
In short, we need to know more facts.
No siblings. Father is around as far as we know, but no one knows whether he is well enough to know what’s going on – or has washed his hands of it all.
The father is partially at fault.
Thanks, Shivani. Very thoughtful article. I return for now.
This is an important analysis though it does not excuse KAR’s life choices. We will never know what happened behind closed doors. Nevertheless, others have emerged from such childhoods (if what you suspect is true) without devolving into monstrous sociopathy.
Accounts exist that his mother was a kind and attentive – that she even sought out advanced schooling for him – but when KAR was six or so she was involved in a pre- or post-divorce and perhaps that affected her. The withdrawal of his father must have been devastating. I also think it pertinent that KAR was told over and over at a young age that he was “gifted” and special. I believe parents must temper praise (even if deserved) with ordinary discipline and discussions about conscience and ethics. (NO, Keith, not YOUR “ethics,” which are a smokescreen for your cold intentions.)
What is, I think, unusual is that he morphed into a steadfast woman hater in every respect of the word, and had no real male friends or mentors, as far as we can tell. He is self absorbed and emotionally untouchable.
Historical digging would help here but records from the 1960s are obscure and not on line. Maybe once he is sentenced people will feel free to speak openly. I continue to hope for a well researched, deeply thought out book someday.
I agree with you ocd – I think the divorce really messed him up. And, he blamed his mom – her perceived and real deficiencies as a parent deprived him of a dad – whom he idolized precisely because he was so distant.
I think that Raniere is responsible for what he’s done, and so is each person who was or is with him, responsible for their actions. What each one of us experiences shapes us. If you happen to have been sexually abused as a child, this does not create a monster, out of every single sexually abused child. Many, in fact, grow up swearing that they will be the opposite of abusive. These people are protective of children, watch out for them, even watch out for children who are not known to them personally. Others end up to do what was done to them. Some are going to have been born with sociopathic or even psychotic conditions, and this is pretty hopeless, incurable, with what we know now.
But no one can judge or completely analyze someone’s mental or emotional situation from a distance. This takes direct work with the individual. The ones who have a lifelong “mental” condition can be helped a little, but not much. Our late aunt worked with children who have killed and who were institutionalized for most of her career. (PhD) She was well aware, and deeply saddened, that many people simply cannot be helped.
We don’t know what causes some people to want to protect and heal and what exactly causes others to “go off the deep end.” I wish that we did know; it would be immensely helpful. But violence, abuse impacts the entire person, even the “heart and soul.” It goes deep. Many people do not have the opportumities to heal themselves. Life can be too hard for them to find help or to understand that they are not well. ” The walking wounded.”
I once drove my car right up onto a sidewalk because man on a bicycle was chasing after a teenage girl also on her bicycle, and I could see her distress. That son-of-a-bitch had radar too, criminal radar, and he rushed off lickety-split, away from the child. And whether Peaches knows it or not, I was sexually abused as a very little girl and have said so here before. It almost came down to the guy ready to kill me at age five. Only luck or “angels” stopped what was about to happen. My father was unaware of what I had been going through, and my mother did not give a damn what happened to me. She did tremendous damage to our entire family and, of course, lived an entire century, just the way that she was and had always been. Three of her children grew up to be helpers, another one was born extremely handicapped and the first child she had turned out to be even more dangerous than she.
I look at Raniere and pick up a lot that I cannot really explain, not to most people, because they are unlikely to understand. This is how life is. However, my attempts to understand Raniere DO NOT EXCUSE him. None of these people who hopped on his bandwagon, in my opinion, can be excused for their individual decisions.
Thanks. Yeah, I couldn’t tell if you were just filling in a void on FR or speaking from experience. I figured his parents royally screwed him up. I opened up because it’s ridiculous the way he treated people. If I lived by his standards, I’d be secretly killing men. I know it’s wrong and I have a conscience. I believe he secretly killed the lost women of nxivm and possibly his mom. Can someone get his mom’s death record?
Raniere was into creepy movies I bet, besides clockwork orange he was also a fan of Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho. And daddy watched to much porn and was limp himself from banging whores because mommy was to drunk. Shivani how can we get Ranieres child progress reports from school? It would seem the best route to explore his childhood lest he talk.
You will never obtain ‘Raniere’s child progress reports from school’ because he went to a Waldorf School. They don’t keep records or share data with state ed. authorities.
I had no ‘nourishing’ parenting. A drunken Mother till she ran off at 6, and a dad who disappeared long before that under a cloud of criminality, till I was sent to him as a 10-year-old. Social Services removed me from his remit at 14.
I don’t consider my childhood circs to be unusual or unusually terrible, its just life. Making babies is easy – rearing them takes something else.
Although this all had a massive effect on me, it didn’t turn me into a psychopathic slave driver or even a moderately connected cult member.
Children raise up with so little in terms of what the good Montessori might consider essential. Most will not grow up to be like KAR.
This article is a piece of very weak special pleading IMO
Bull fucking shit. This is such crap. Yes obviously mommy touched his peepee. If you think he was traumatized by mommy dearest enough to make him who he is, your treading water. He’s a soulless piece of shit. There are demons among us. This is the devils playground. There are saints among us. Only demons do what he did. It wouldn’t surprise me if he killed his mother also.
I’m throwing down a few bucks on his mother being his first murder victim. Pending Frank’s investigations on Gina and Kristin, I’ve got the odds at 50/50. He was in charge of taking care of poor sickly, alcoholic mama. Such a coincidence that so many women who were close to Keith ended up dying young…
That’s a good interesting point.
Second that..
And he seemed to enjoy watching women become sickly and slowly wither.
That’s the creepiest thing of all, Pyriel. It’s what proves to me he is incapable of love or even true affection. He was observing the damage being done by the food and sleep deprivation without one expression of concern. (Or did he? Does anyone recall him stating that so-and-so was getting too thin, or looked exhausted and needed rest?) That’s why it’s hard to feel for him in his current less-than-pleasant circumstances.
He told Mark Vicente “But she’s still having her period.” Does that count as showing true affection and love?
Keith is a master at faking emotion. That’s a reason all of these women fell for him. He is an expert at pretending to be things he’s not, and he enjoys using that skill to cause women to “become sickly and slowly wither.” And, I believe if his women weren’t withering at an acceptable pace, he’d creatively help them out.
Hey, Orange! Good to see you’re still peeking in on here!
Completely agree with you and peaches — Raniere aligns perfectly with everything I’ve ever read about psychotic narcissism — I knew him and he exhibits all the traits looking back on it of a psychopath Who is born with this not a sociopath Who is trained to it by their society or social environmental circumstances including their family, abuse etc.
Those “sociopaths” are the people Raniere is trying to make into who he is.
That goes for rainbow culture garden kids, for the preteen virgin girls — all those he’s trying to spread his disease two through a controlled, destructive social environment.
I 100% agree with Heidi. All these tests that Keith concocted were ways for him to save time in finding those specific kinds of sociopaths he was looking to corrupt.
And great to hear from OCD. The more of OCD and the less of the rest of us, makes FR better.
Pyriel, I think this is a big element about him, how he wanted to diminish health and energy in women to make them more under his control and dictatorship. His mother was apparently not only drinking too much booze, but had poor health, increasingly. Lots of men like “skinny” but Raniere was way overboard, even grunting and making pig noises to humiliate some women just for opening a fridge door. I cannot imagine tolerating that ever, not for a second.
Always it amazes me that more didn’t just leave, but the inner core of women especially, added tons of peer pressure when anyone objected, rebelled or resisted “the program.” Right away, if you wanted to stand up for yourself, you would be made wrong, wrong, wrong. And more Raniere was” the only solution” these oafs had.
Sometimes I wonder how different this all would have looked, had Raniere only wanted hugely obese young girls and women. Forgive me but that strikes me funny, picturing a cult full of morbidly obese women.
Yes it’s leader is the hamburglar.
The terrorists of NXIVM are no different from the terrorists of ISIS who were killed yesterday.
President Trump did not apologize for killing Al-Bagdadi, Bagdadi’s two wives or Bagdadi’s three children.
They are all scum.
Uhhh…ok…
Shadowstate,
“The terrorists of NXIVM are no different from the terrorists of ISIS who were killed yesterday.
President Trump did not apologize for killing Al-Bagdadi, Bagdadi’s two wives or Bagdadi’s three children.
They are all scum”, Shadowstate.
In all honesty the statement above that you have posted is worrisome to me.
I sincerely hope that posts like the one above are of a flippant nature most of the time.
Maybe a little trolling to get attention?
I certainly hope they are.
Shadowstate I just wanna clarify.
I don’t care the Trump killed a terrorist I feel bad that there was collateral damage.
My point was that there is no equivalence because NXIVM members and a ISIS leader.
Peaches, this isn’t excusing Raniere, it is looking at his environment and how it could have affected how and what shaped his particular “madnesses.” It is clear that he has had his own huge hangups around how he wanted to control especially females, and also that he was compelled to be sexually abusive in certain quite specific ways. His case is uncommon. He set up the whole environment. He ran it. He is infamous for Nxivm, for DOS and for being a conman who didn’t get caught for years and years.
He is what is called a highly “organized criminal” and also one with a lot of followers. People have been willing to do crazy, stupid, illegal and even lethal things for Raniere. This is extreme criminality with him as the overlord, not run of the mill. It is, in fact, not intelligent to leave him unanalyzed because there’s a lot to learn from studying psychopaths, sociopaths, “monsters.”
Not every monster likes or tries to do the exact same things to satisfy his inner demons. Far from it. He will be studied as Charles Manson has been studied – in detail. He is not easy to define. This is despite anyone’s idea to just call him a monster or “demon” and to be satisfied with such an elementary and shallow, sweeping judgment. Comments saying that add very little that is worthwhile, like saying a Hershey’s bar is brown. Yeah we know that. So what?
I really do not appreciate how nasty many of your comments to me come off, and it happens frequently. I am being civil to you and do not want to react to you emotionally. But surprise, I have feelings, too. Why be so hurtful, mean? Your angry tone is your problem, not mine. Now I have told you, I don’t care for it. Maybe you will decide to dial it back. Maybe you won’t. You could discipline yourself to disagree without being hostile, in other words, intelligently and productively instead of casting stones. Everyone of us can improve ourselves.
I am not the appropriate person for you to use your hostility against. Also, you have zero exclusivity as a victim of childhood sexual abuse. Back off me about that. I can roll with the punches well but NOT about having been a sexually abused child. You have absolutely no idea what I have experienced, and right now I certainly would not trust you enough to tell you any of it. That is precisely due to the tone you use towards me. There is nothing to trust about it.
Where is your compassion? Do you get off on sniping and then shifting to “poor me” so you can get away with it without being confronted? Did suffering not increase your kindness but instead diminish it?
This is the first and the last time that I will try to reach you about this, and I am not here at Frank’s to fight or be petty but to learn and to communicate well, not poorly. I will stand up for myself, though. Some here can use good will and even humor to smooth bumps or disagreements and some cannot.
Raniere had to have a certain atmosphere, much more detailed and exacting than is usual. He was not a guy whose turn-ons were as simple as many rapists or abusers. Raniere had to feel like a “God” figure, too. He had to be worshipped, he wanted women deprived of food and reasonable amounts of sleep. He encouraged criminality to ne done in his name, like Manson. He wanted a whole world of his own, where he was supreme.
Far from excusing him, I think it would be best for everyone if Raniere never gets out of confinement. I think he will never be able to control himself and that it is very, very obvious. Again, I am trying to get more understanding about Raniere’s specific elements. Trying to see whatever caused him to be who he is does not exonerate him for who he is or what he’s done. We still study Hitler, as an individual, what made him tick. No one is excusing him for what he made of it. This seems so simple to understand. People research, study, write disseratations about Hitler, even now. Not everyone just sits at keyboards casting useless stones like, “yeah, Hitler was bad.” Essentially that is useless input that contributes nothing more than a grunt.