In my story Is Emiliano Salinas on the Hot Seat? Or Just in Need of Mental Help?, I discussed the potential crimes for which Emiliano Salinas might still be charged by the Feds.
The most serious charge is probably his co-conspiring with Keith Raniere and Clare Bronfman to illegally spy on Nxivm enemies. But there is another crime he may have participated in – a plot to lure several of Raniere’s female enemies to Mexico and have them falsely imprisoned – that he might still be charged for. It falls squarely within the Nxivm racketeering enterprise.
The women he and Raniere targeted were Barbara Bouchey, Susan Dones, Toni Natalie and Kim Woolhouse.
Why Emiliano would seek to aid Keith Raniere on his personal vendettas is hard to understand. Emiliano had nothing personally against these women. Perhaps he thought these women were able to destroy the noble mission of his illustrious guru; perhaps he enjoyed being evil. Perhaps he was just a witless fool.
***
Our original information about this alleged crime comes from a secretly recorded phone call [recorded by Bouchey] between Bouchey and Kristin Keeffe.
To Keeffe’s credit, just about everything she said on the recording and other things she wrote to various Nxivm members at the same time wound up being true and later proven in court. She oftentimes seems prophetic.
Here is what Keeffe and Bouchey discussed about Emiliano’s role in the plot to lure Raniere’s female enemies to Mexico:
Kristin: And, so now I have a final thing, which has to do with the plot, the Mexican plot.
Barbara: I remember Toni calling me, you know, we didn’t talk a lot, but once in a while, every three or four months, we’d have a little chat. But, I remember this one time calling saying, “Are you getting phone calls from this Mexican journalist?” I said, “We have gotten some, but I hadn’t actually connected with the person.” And, she says, “She wants me to come down. I’m not fucking going to Mexico, what are they fucking crazy?”
Kristin: So, here’s thing. You and Toni—and possibly Susan was probably getting calls too cause they were after Susan and Kim as well. You can’t imagine the importance of the evidence of these communications that this journalist was contacting you guys, because she was contacting you, if you recall, to go down to Mexico for an anti-cult conference, correct? Do you remember that?
Barbara: Yeah, Toni told me that part of it. I didn’t hear that part of it, but Toni told me.
Kristin: It was an anti-cult conference. Here is what Keith and Emiliano did: they bribed a Judge in Mexico to issue an indictment against you, and Toni, and Susan, and Kim. They were at different times considering adding Rick Ross and Joe O’Hara but then Joe got arrested, and all these other people. Then Keith wheedled it down to just being the four of you. You were going to be lured into Mexico, and when you got to Mexico, they were going to put you in fucking prison. You should see the emails!
Barbara: Were they really? How serious were they?
Kristin: They were serious as a fucking heart attack. I saw the Judge’s decision. Keith helped write it, and there were issues about Emiliano translating it. He worked on this for years. Fucking years. This was like a three plus year plot in the making.
Barbara: Wow. Wow.
Kristin: And, the only reason they didn’t go forward with it was because when the journalist started contacting you guys, and Toni was the only one that responded, and there wasn’t strong response – simultaneous to the lack of strong response – the police opened the probe into the computer trespass. So, Keith downgraded the plot to have you guys thrown in prison where he expected you to be raped and rot. And,
he thought that the pressure would be so bad that Toni would turn on everybody and say whatever she had to, to get out. Cause he was like, “Barbara will go down with the ship” and like, “Barbara’s never going to lie, but Toni will.” That was his strategy, and his belief. And, they were going to put you in a miserable, horrible, violent, vile place.
Barbara: Right.
Kristin: And, the email, what happened was that Keith and Emiliano did this whole thing through a fucking Gmail account. … I think that was an email address they had just set up and what they would do was communicate by writing drafts. Like, they would both log on and
communicate.
Barbara: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Kristin: Here’s the other thing, Keith didn’t realize until the Edward Snowden thing came out about the NSA, what he realized later was that they save fucking everything. And, those emails are going to be in that account, even the drafts.
Barbara: So, the drafts even if you don’t save the draft, and you delete them, it gets stored?
Kristin: Yes.
Barbara: Oh, I didn’t know that.
Kristin: It gets stored on the Gmail server and uploaded to the government.
Barbara: Okay, got it.
Kristin: The Gmail server does the auto save.
Barbara: Yeah, that’s right, it does.
Kristin: So, this is going to be harder to prove because of the complexity of getting it. But, I believe that you and Toni, and possibly even Susan (Dones) and Kim (Woolhouse), have a basis to look into this, because of the communications from the journalist. Why the fuck was this journalist contacting you?
Barbara: Right, well, I have emails.
Kristin: You have emails. Perfect.
Barbara: I mean, there were two different journalists that contacted me from Mexico. And, I mean I keep everything….
Kristin: The plot itself, proves why, and gives a valid basis for not disclosing the source. And, at least, I believe the communications from the Mexican journalists are enough to provide a basis for it to be investigated even without having a witness to attest to it. But, here’s the thing, Barbara that is why I’m in fucking hiding. I mean that is why I’ve had to take these extraordinary measures before I could get involved
in this. Because, it’s fucking black. This was serious shit.
Barbara: Right.
Kristin: I mean, this was when I was sub-rosa. I mean, in my mind, you can’t imagine, you don’t know how many stupid walks I did with Keith where he’s saying these things and I’m saying, “oh, that’s a great idea,” but in my mind I’m thinking, “he’s a madman.”
Barbara: Yeah, I know.
Kristin: You know? Because, I knew. But, I learned from experience that the way I’m going to get him is by playing along until I have so much that I could crush him. But, even when I left, I had to protect myself first, before I could admit back. It takes time to get all this shit together.
Barbara: Do you have a prediction of what you think, how this will go down for Keith? Do you think that we’ll be able to hold him accountable?
Kristin: Yes, I do. And, I think he will be thoroughly and utterly destroyed, and if he doesn’t leave the country, then he’s going to, ultimately going to, end up in arrest and indictments, and some serious shit for everyone, and everyone involved. Him, Nancy, Clare, and Emiliano especially.
Barbara: Right.
Kristin: And, you know what? I gave them fair fucking warning. If they’re not getting their own attorneys to isolate, separate themselves from Keith, then they deserve what they get. You know what I am saying?
***
Well, Kristin was right about everybody – but Emiliano so far. Keith, Nancy Salzman, Clare Bronfman – as well as Allison Mack, Lauren Salzman and Kathy Russell were charged and either convicted or signed a plea deal. Either way, they’re all going to prison. .
Only Emiliano has escaped untouched so far. But then again, the Mexican plot failed altogether. [And his efforts at spying on Nxivm enemies was laughably inept.]
Still, as I wrote, “As for hard facts – actual crimes Emiliano Salinas’ is suspected of a participating in – there was a plot to kidnap several of Raniere’s female enemies and have them imprisoned, raped and possibly killed, after luring them to Mexico.
“The plot never worked – no one was lured to Mexico – and sources inside Nxivm have recently said that the plot was not a serious one. They clumsily reached out to certain enemies who knew all along that they had this plot. Neither side took it seriously.
“In other words, their efforts were so inept that the luring process was discovered at once and at least one of the proposed targets [Toni Natalie] tried to make hay with it, pretending she thought it to be much more serious than it really ever was.”
***
How serious the plot was is, of course, of some interest to us now with, presumably, an ongoing investigation into Nxivm and some of the co-conspirators. Charges may be filed soon against Raniere, Clare Bronfman and possibly Salinas, as well as others.
At one time, it seems almost certain, Keith and Emiliano did plan to lure these four women to Mexico and ruin their lives.
According to Keeffe, Raniere theorized that Natalie would turn “rat” the quickest, and inform on the others. Whether that is true or not is unknown. But regardless, no one of the four women for one second seriously considered going to Mexico.
They all smelled a plot [smelled Raniere] and all of them knew about Emiliano’s strong political connections in Mexico and had no doubt he could throw innocent people in prison if he wished.
There was zero chance that any of the women were going to accept an invitation from a Mexican journalist to come down to Mexico and speak at an anti-cult forum.
Curiously, the Mexican journalist selected by Raniere and Salinas was none other than Yuriria Sierra – a well-known journalist in Mexico who is also well known as the Salinas’ ‘family poodle.’
See Yuriria Sierra, Emiliano & Carlos Salinas and possible election theft
New Info on Journalist in Raniere/Salinas Mexican Plot to lure women to pain
Reportedly, she was the only journalist invited to Emiliano Salinas’ wedding to Ludwika Paleta in 2013.
That she would be shilling for Salinas is not hard to believe.
But Keith, knowing the plot would fail, shifted gears to getting Bouchey and Natalie indicted on computer trespassing charges. He was successful in this, but the case was ultimately dropped against the women because of revelations Kristin Keeffe disclosed about Clare Bronfman’s perjury.
It is said that Keeffe saved Natalie from going to prison on these charges for which Natalie, at least, was guilty. [Natalie did something unspeakably cruel to Keeffe as recompense but that is another story for another day. Suffice it to say that the Keeffe saved Natalie from going to prison on the computer trespassing case, thanks to her revelations, and Natalie repaid the kindness with an incredible act of cruelty to Keeffe and her son.]
Still, much of the computer trespassing case has been discussed previously on Frank Report. Some have said that Natalie deceived Joe O’Hara and the others into using Mary Jane Pino’s password. Toni allegedly told them that Mary Jane gave her and the others permission to use her password in order to access the Nxivm website.
Mary Jane told Frank Report that Toni is a liar – and that she never gave Toni permission and that Toni must have stolen or hacked her password.
She swore in an affidavit [under penalty of perjury] to that effect. Toni maintains she did get permission.
Ironically, Mary Jane Pino retained E. Stuart Jones, a well known Capital District area attorney, who had previously represented Toni in a criminal case wherein it was alleged that Toni committed bank fraud. [Toni admitted she was indicted for it but claims Keith made her commit the bank fraud and that she did not know what she was signing. It seems to have involved her signing for restaurant equipment for her restaurant that was never actually purchased. Toni got the money to buy the equipment but did not buy it, and instead allegedly pocketed the cash. Toni said she did not know what she was signing and that Keith set the whole thing up. A law enforcement source familiar with the case told Frank Report that her story is nonsense and that her whole family, including her brother, participated in this bank fraud scheme for years.]
In any event, as per the computer trespassing case, the lack of permission by Mary Jane Pino caused indictments to be lodged against Toni [three felonies] and Joe and John Tighe [one felony each]. It also led to civil lawsuits which ultimately cost Albany Times Union reporter James Odato his job.
The difference between Toni’s three felony computer trespassing charges, and Joe’s and John’s single felony charge was that Toni was doing sophisticated computer trespassing. She stole the Nxivm client list. That was why everyone got arrested, it seems. She uploaded code on the system and converted it into a customer list that she then stole. The trespassing – the mere logging on and rooting around on the Nxivm computers – by Joe and John – would not likely have been charged. It was Toni’s theft of the customer list that pushed it over the top, sources inside Nxivm tell me.
The backlash was so great from Toni’s entre into computer trespassing that it destroyed all opposition to Raniere and Nxivm for years until I took up the cause on Frank Report – an effort I made solely and without any help from Toni or the others.
Joe O’Hara later joined in my efforts to take down Nxivm along with others such as Catherine Oxenberg, Sarah Edmondson, Mark Vicente, and Bonnie Piesse, as well as Kristin Keeffe.
The point, however, is that Keith shifted from luring Toni, Barb, Susan and Kim to Mexico to rape and ruin them to getting Toni and Barb imprisoned in the US on computer trespassing charges. He dropped the Mexican plot – or rather the women did not bite on it.
They knew from the get-go that it was a plot.
“Still – in fairness,” as I wrote, “these women and a lot of ex-Nxivm members are rightfully fearful of going to Mexico – even on a visit. Emiliano makes this threat serious by the fact of his father’s ruthless political reputation and Mexico’s corrupt governance.
“It is easy enough to believe that Emiliano could bribe a judge or a police official to arrest Nxivm enemies if they should land in Mexico one day.”
***
A commenter who I have spoken to and who has identified himself to me, who goes by the moniker “Nut Job” [and who is not Chet Hardin], has often come to the defense of Toni Natalie. His perspective is important.
Nutjob writes about how serious the threat of rape and imprisonment was to Toni.
He writes, “Frank – I know you cannot divulge your sources. Here’s what I’ll say about the plot to lure the women to Mexico. Unless your source is Kristin Keeffe, the info provided to you is questionable at best. I’m sure the source(s) fully believes it and may have received the information from Keith himself. Kristin Keeffe was Keith’s legal liaison. She was in on everything and knew all the dirt. Keith told others what he wanted them to know. If Keith said, ‘It wasn’t serious. It was a joke.’ – he’d tell a Lauren or Karen U etc. this information so that the version of events Keith wanted to get out there, got out there.
“As luck would have it, we have a damn recorded phone call from Kristin Keeffe to Barbara Bouchey that gives context to this plot. (If anyone hasn’t listened to that, I highly recommend it.) Here’s what Kristin had to say about it:
“’Clare did the stuff getting the financial records, Nancy hid the money and did the tax fraud, and Emiliano set up the scheme to get you and Toni thrown in a Mexican prison. But, none of them knew what the other two did, you follow me?”
“Personally, I’ll trust Kristin on this. The only other two who definitely know the truth (other than maybe a bribed Mexican judge) are Keith and Emi. And they certainly will downplay the plot to anyone and everyone who asks.”
A little later NutJob embellished on this comment. He wrote, “Frank – I’m walking back my statement when I said ‘I’m sure your source fully believes it.’ My antenna is going bonkers, and I’m changing it to ‘maybe your source fully believes it.’
“Why does your source within NXIVM keep spinning everything that has to do with Toni? If this anonymous source deep within NXIVM ‘knows for a fact’ that Toni is a lying, manipulative, and evil person, then why do they need to spin things? They should be able to deal in factual information without trying to sell you, Joe, and the Frank Report readers on why history should be looked at from a different lens.
“’Source’ – Now, this plot wasn’t a real plot, but Toni made it into something it wasn’t? Seriously – EVERYTHING that EVER had ANYTHING to do with Toni has been fake? Give me a fucking break, ‘Source’. You were more believable when you were trying to smear black paint on only part of the Toni Natalie story. When you’re dumping the entire can of black paint over her entire story, an agenda on your part is the only logical conclusion I’m beginning to come to.
“Maybe your agenda is to expose her as a fraud. Then go for it. I’m not saying you’re wrong. But stick to the facts. And you don’t need to disprove her entire story in order to achieve your desired outcome.
“Toni was hated by jealous inner circle members while she was still involved with Keith. She was presented to the world as his girlfriend.
Toni was even more hated by everyone after she left. Why was she hated? Because lies were told about her. Lies were told about her for years and years as Keith’s insane infatuation with destroying Toni never dissipated. I say this because I don’t think Toni has many people within NXIVM who knew her well, weren’t jealous of her when they did know her, or heard anything to make them like her after she gave Keith the middle finger.
“If my original post was correct and this source does ‘fully believe it’, I revert back to the original post.”
***
So fair enough, Nut Job. Clearly, not everything Toni did was bad or villainous and of the two of them, Keith and Toni, clearly Keith is the greater monster. It seems clear that Toni has embellished her story and she was not, of course, fully a victim – but this does not negate her entire story – nor does it negate that Keith wanted to harm her.
She seems to have wanted to harm him in return. They both had a great hatred for each other and it seems whenever one of them was through with the other – the other would start afresh.
I can’t say Toni had a large role in taking down Nxivm, but she had some role. She was willing to talk to the media often when others would not. Some say she was under intense pressure to spin crime on Raniere in order to obfuscate her own crimes of bank fraud and other deceptions connected to bankruptcies and Mr. Shoes Pizza – which somehow was transferred into her name by her brother when he sought to avoid paying taxes to the IRS.
[Toni even blamed her brother’s suicide on Keith – which, by all accounts is extremely deceptive on her part. His suicide seems to have had nothing to do with Keith but with his own crimes and the tangled web he weaved and how he financially nearly ruined his parents’ lives. His own suspected heavy drug use was also considered to be a major factor. {Toni used to brag that her brother was an excellent drug runner}. Yet, Toni has spun a narrative that Keith was behind his suicide. It is true that Keith was probably behind Gina Hutchinson’s suicide and behind the disappearance of Kristin Snyder – but there is no evidence that he had anything to do with the death of John Natalie. But it does make for a good story and adds to the romance of Toni as the victim fighting Keith Raniere in a decades-long life and death struggle.]
For my own part, I personally caught Toni telling the most dreadful and devious lies about me behind my back to some of my sources – for reasons that are not clear. She apologized to me in writing for her lies but did not make a complete confession as to why she lied about me [and others] in the first place.
Several sources who know her well tell me that Toni lies all the time [it is pathological] and that much of her book is going to be a big lie, [and how she fooled the publishers into not fact-checking is anybody’s guess.] They say she will exaggerate her role in taking down Nxivm, embellish her relationship with Keith and make herself into a dramatic heroine – when she is anything but a heroine, but really more of a grifter who naturally fell in with a fellow grifter in Keith.
“They were a match made in Hades,” as one former friend of Toni describes it.
I know not if this is true. I used to believe Toni at face-value until I caught her lying and making up stories about me.
The one lie that bothers me the most does not concern me, however. It is about how she claims she was a single mother.
This is truly false.
By all accounts, she totally gave up her [adopted] son and took off with a much younger man [Scott Foley] who left his wife and his own daughter and the two lovebirds split to the Florida Keys. [Scott did become husband number 4 for Toni.]
Later, they returned and started a restaurant together and it failed – [not Keith’s fault – though I believe Toni somehow blames Keith for the failure.]
When she returned to Rochester to start her new restaurant, she did not resume her relationship with her son. She was content to let her son be raised by his father. My sources tell me she never even visited the lad for the better part of 10 years.
For her to call herself a “single mom” – as she does in the blurb for her book – fighting the monster Raniere – smells of deception.
She was not a single mom. No, not like Kristin Keeffe, who risked all and kept her son. And fought, really fought to take down Raniere – all the while protecting her son from the monster.
Toni split with Scott down to the Florida Keys [abandoning her son – she blamed Keith for that too – but I like to compare it to Kristin Keeffe who was much more hunted by Keith and did not abandon her son] and Toni enjoyed her life in the Keys and ran out of money then came north and failed again and again in business. Was it because of Keith, or because of her own innate cupidity or lack of business acumen?
Either way, she was not a single mother fighting the good fight.
That said, it does not mean that the bigger grifter, Keith Raniere, was not trying to lure Toni to Mexico and have her raped and abused. He wanted her and he wanted Bouchey, Dones and Woolhouse.
And Raniere employed Emiliano Salinas to help him destroy these women.
He failed and if it were not for Toni’s alleged lie about Mary Jane Pino giving permission to use her password, Raniere would have come up empty-handed altogether.
If Toni did lie about Mary Jane Pino, she harmed a lot of people. But she might be telling the truth. Maybe Mary Jane did give her the password.
But Toni is not telling the truth about being a single mother – that is pure bullshit. A bullshitter’s story seemingly spun to make her look good and heroic. The truth is she abandoned her son and left him with his father and went off to live her own life.
When she got into legal trouble, she always used the cult excuse – that the devil [Keith] made her do it. And Keith, in turn, used his own means to try to destroy her.
It is not heroic in my eyes. Perhaps it is in yours.
But that does not mean everything Toni says is a lie. I agree with Nut Job.
She told some truth and she fought Raniere. Only her motives are not exactly as pure as she makes them out to be.
But let us call a spade a spade. Toni knew at once when she was invited to Mexico that Keith was behind it. But if she had gone, there is little doubt she would have been arrested and imprisoned, thanks to Emiliano and his criminal tendencies.
So should Emiliano get off scot-free?
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
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[…] August 29, 2019 Toni Natalie Helped Me When Jim Odato Called August 29, 2019 Was Toni Natalie Really Targeted for Kidnapping by Raniere and Emiliano Salinas? September 2, 2019 11:48 pm Did NXIVM Almost Survive and Thrive Because of Toni Natalie? […]
Regardless of nothing happening to the “plot” to having KAR’s enemies falling for the trip to speak at an “anti-cult conference in Mexico. the fact that KAR and Emiliano Salinas worked on and set up such a plan is illegal.
If the DOJ has/is investigating this plot and has access the email account used between KAR and Emiliano both are in trouble legally and another set of charges can be brought against KAR and an unsealed indictment can be waiting for the #1 Salinas son whenever he crosses the US border.
Just as KAR and Emiliano has taken the rights away from these four women to ever risk visiting Mexico without the risk of being arrested and thrown in prison. Emiliano has most likely taken away his own right away, by his participating with KAR in his evil plots, from ever visiting the United States of America without risking arrest.
There are lots of reasons that have nothing to do with NXIVM that make traveling to Mexico a bad idea.
Great article, Frank.
Well written and balanced.
As for the Mexico plot, I agree that Toni is probably gonna try to milk it for extra sympathy in her book — by making as much hay about it as she can — even though she likely sniffed out the inept plot immediately.
Thus, I doubt she was ever in any real danger of falling for it.
It was an inept, half-assed plan. Much ado about nothing IMO.
I think Toni is likely just trying to aggrandize herself and play the victim to the fullest degree, which doesn’t surprise me after reading Frank’s previous story (from 1-2 weeks ago) where he described Toni as a person who enjoyed duping hotel staffs — by claiming to have some problem with her room until they comped her the room or at least gave her an upgrade to a better room.
That’s pretty child-like & twisted behavior in my opinion, especially since Frank claims that Toni actually called herself “Queen of the Comp” which, if true, really tells me that she’s ‘proud’ of her dishonest and child-like behavior. LOL.
I wouldn’t trust a person who actually calls herself “Queen of the Comp”.
Why?
Cuz I’d assume everything that comes out of their mouth is subject to self aggrandizement and veracity problems.
Another good article, Frank.
Toni told me about the Mexican journalist. I was working with a rather prominent Mexican-American publisher at the time — as a cover feature writer for “Citizen LA.” My Mexican colleagues there promptly confirmed Sierra was a Salinas stooge but I don’t think Toni was ever seriously considering taking up her invite. Toni was already nervous about Keith’s connection to the Mexican PRI elites.
Toni DID pass out Mary Pino’s username and password claiming she had Mary’s permission and I believe she did. My sense was that this was also a NXIVM entrapment scheme that Toni actually fell for. “Mary Pino’s” access on the NX servers was very deliberately limited, IMO, so that apparently whomever logged on might be caught committing a “crime” without getting to the booty, so to speak. Was Mary herself, btw, ever investigated or indicted for passing out her password? Of course it wouldn’t be in her interests to admit she did so freely and willingly…or, certainly not at anyone’s urging as part of an entrapment ploy.
Finally, Toni’s “son” is her stepson — the son of the man she married not her own, natural child. It’s not so unusual that she let the natural Dad take over most of the parenting responsibilities when they split.
My two cents, anyhow.
Toni adopted a son with husband #3 that she abandoned. Husband #4 also had a child which he abandoned when he ran off with Toni.
Stepson only, you say?
Natural for dad to take him?
Nothing to see here, you say?
I read somewhere that she had a newly ‘adopted’ baby boy, not a stepson.
Adopting a BABY BOY is NOT the same thing as marrying a guy with an older stepson that’s never adopted, Heidi.
Stop trying to downplay things.
I also thought that Toni was given custody of her son immediately after leaving her husband.
I also thought (but am not sure) that Toni kept custody of her adopted son while living with Keith for years, and didn’t actually send him back to his father until she met up with some other guy in the future.
If true, that doesn’t sound like the rosy story you’re trying to paint for us.
Sending your son back to his father AFTER raising him for years is not ‘normal’ in my opinion, Heidi.
I don’t know what’s true here, but it sounds like Heidi is kinda ‘groveling’ and trying to get Toni to apologize for what Joe said in his article.
Before I believe Heidi’s claims here, I’m gonna wait for Frank to confirm this stuff.
BTW Heidi, what about her “Queen of the Comp” nickname and behavior with hotel staffs?
Does that sound normal to you too? LOL.
*I understand that her husband was the ‘biological father’ and that Toni was not the biological mother.
However, she still ADOPTED that BABY BOY and allegedly raised him for several years after she split with her husband — so that’s NOT the story that Heidi’s trying to portray.
**Meant to say that I understood that Heidi was ‘claiming’ that the husband was the boy’s biological father.
Whether that’s true or not I have no idea and nor do I care —– since it doesn’t change the fact that Toni was the legal adoptive mom of a BABY BOY and not just a ‘stepmom’, as Heidi claims.
Also, it doesn’t change the fact that Toni did not lose custody due to the divorce, as Heidi is trying to IMPLY with her sob story. Nope, that just didn’t happen.
According to Frank Parlato’s other article, Toni sent her son back to his father when she met up with another dude (Scott Foley). According to Frank’s information, apparently Toni wanted a new life with Scott Foley that didn’t include her son.
That’s not very ‘nice’ or ‘normal’, in my opinion.
In my opinion, that’s equivalent to ditching your child for a man. I think it’s despicable.
Please don’t sugar coat Toni’s life choices for us. The truth is what we want.
This is what you get when debating a liar like Natalie, there is no confidence that anything you read is true.
Bangcuck,
You just love the infighting amongst adults…. probably reminds you of home…..
……like a déjà vu…
Don’t you have homework to do or did your sorry pitiful ass drop out of community college?
Have nice night polishing your pole to foot fetish porn! 😉
Keith gave Toni that nickname of “Comp Queen” to humiliate her within the group and guilt her to his will while, as usual, projecting his own imperfections onto her and making her one of his scapegoats if not his branded sheep like those who stayed on.
That’s what narcissists do as I suspect you well know.
Keith also encouraged Toni to prove how good she was at getting comped, including agrandizing him as deserving of such treatment, if I recall one of her comp stories rightly.
I’m not trying to sugar coat anything, in fact I’m kinda still pissed off at some lies Toni told to and about me, but the TRUTH is imperative for me, anyone, to get to the bottom of anything. Especially for myself and others, to the truth about Gina’s death.
Toni’s story is that her son was adopted by her and her third husband, Rusty.
Now, you’re saying his father is Toni’s this husband.
What, these are two very different stories.
I guess we’re just gonna hafta buy Toni’s book to find out! (But I’m sure I lost my bid on a free, autographed copy. Shucks.)
Lost your bid on a free, autographed copy? 🙂
I doubt it, cuz you’ve been trying to get back in her good graces for the past two weeks.
Here’s how I see the situation:
According to Joe, she reportedly talked crap about you behind your back —– but instead of defending your good name and pushing back, you actually started groveling and apologizing to her.
WTF???? 🙂
I prefer the previous version of Heidi from last year, the one who doesn’t back down from anybody ever.
Bangkok,
You do have a thing for Heidi.
Realistically……. Lauren Salzman or everyone’s favorite Canadian cat owner Flowers should be your love quarry…..
Then again what do I know, hey, maybe you can be Heidi’s cabana boy.
You have a good you little dipshit 😉
If I don’t get an autographed copy, I’ll be pissed.
Another great story about the “most ethical man in the world” and the people he attracts! It appears that in the war of KR vs TN, TN is the victor now that KR is in prison for the foreseeable future. But is she? How much of her life’s energy was wasted on all this negative emotion and behaviour? How much is it worth to spend decades of your best years slinging mud in his pit? Seemingly her deity’s the almighty dollar, so how much does her book have to make for her to feel that all the years of stress were worth it?
“The Tech works”! Really? Does it? I’ve yet to find ONE healthy minded, lucid thinking individual out of there. I dare say I’d be looking for a unicorn! Could someone explain to me the logic of following an immature, insecure, sexually addicted, sociopathic volleyball player thinking they’re headed to shambala?
What’s a peaceful day, free of anxiety worth? How about the ability to think for yourself, make your own choices and eat whatever you feel like? The entire cult experience is about giving the keys to your happiness away. Putting a sociopath in your drivers seat. You can leave the cult, and get back over to drive, but you’re not really driving anything if the sociopath is still telling you where to go! I hope whatever happens that Toni finds herself a happy life and identity free of KR. I think then she’ll realize there are things that money can’t buy?
“Natalie did something unspeakably cruel to Keeffe as recompense but that is another story for another day. Suffice it to say that the Keeffe saved Natalie from going to prison on the computer trespassing case, thanks to her revelations, and Natalie repaid the kindness with an incredible act of cruelty to Keeffe and her son.”
I can’t wait to hear this story, Frank. To attack Keeffe and her son – a heroic woman in such a vulnerable position – seems incredible to me.
Seriously. WTF is that all about?
This is an interesting and insightful exploration of this aspect of the case.
My take, from reading various accounts, was that Raniere’s followers believed his conspiracy theories, which he may have been paranoid and delusional enough to believe himself – that various people on down from the Illuminati were out to get them. That apparently included any prominent member who left (even if they hadn’t spoken out, like Kristin Snyder), and of course Edgar Bronfman who was blamed for manipulating entire commodities markets to foil Raniere’s supposedly brilliant investment calculations, resulting in the loss of a good chunk of the Bronfman sisters’ fortunes (as bizarre as that sounds, the girls apparently bought it). So it’s plausible that Salinas believed that the “NXIVM Nine” were some sort of evil conspirators seeking to destroy the “mission,” because Raniere spun a convincing-sounding theory to that effect.
Unfortunately, none of these women probably dare ever travel to Mexico now. It’s always possible, for instance, that some crackpot minion somewhere is stuck believing that Emi Salinas or his dad would richly reward them for bringing someone’s head on a platter – there are cases of strange things like that happening. Crazy stuff like this has real, sometimes unintended, and often ongoing consequences for peoples’ lives.
So, uhhhh, Toni. Probably wasn’t a good idea to fuck with Frank…
Since I guess this is now my official role, I’ll give a cursory attempt to defend Toni on a few select things.
– When I knew her, Toni loved her son greatly and talked about him a lot. She wanted the best for him and wanted him to live with her. However, him living with her wasn’t necessarily always the best thing for him. Apparently, her life became even more of a mucking fess after she broke off the Keith relationship. Letting her son live with his Dad may have been the only logical (available?) option.
– Toni’s son and Kristin’s son are apples and oranges. I don’t know that the comparison is fair. Among other things, Kristin couldn’t let daddy or family watch her son. Kristin had to be in total hiding and keep her son in total hiding. The age difference and desire to keep a stable school environment also were in play.
– It might be nice if Scott came to Toni’s defense and admitted that his relationship with his first wife was all but over before “skipping” town with Toni. It takes two to tango. Toni was clearly the straw to break the camel’s back, but was she the cause of Scott’s divorce? I say, no.
Nutjob,
I applaud your chivalrous defense of Toni Natalie…..
But Frank, Joe, Heidi, and even Barbara are more deserving of respect and defense…..
Not one other true victim true of NXIVM has stuck by Toni Natlie. Not one.
Nutjob that alone should tell you something.
Hint, Hint!!!!
NutJob,
Frank Perla would’ve published the response if anybody wanted to stick up for her beside you….
Never mind….
To niceguy – In the past, I’ve defended Frank, Heidi, Joe, and Barbara. (sometimes against your buddies – Scott and Bangcock) I just don’t have the knowledge on most topics here. This, I know some stuff. And I know that Toni doesn’t have natural friends from this ESP/NXIVM crowd, so I feel the ones who have had experiences with her should step up and share.
You’re right, I think. I do respect the fact that you stood up for her…For what it’s worth, it is admirable.
My buddies? Scott and Bangkok father and son… LOL
Take care, Nutjob!
Anony – Didn’t mean to reply to you with the long post. Meant to reply that I agree with your take on the conspiracy theories. No matter how crazy something was, the atmosphere was to believe it – or at least outwardly believe it and inwardly think “these people are nuts.”