By Just An Observation
If Allison Mack didn’t have the cutesy, girl-next-door face, almost no one would be defending her behavior in NXVIM.
It’s that simple.
So many people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to provide some rationale for her behavior simply because she has the America’s Sweetheart thing going for her, on Smallville and in ‘real life’.
I am surprised more parallels have not been made between Allison Mack and the Manson Girls of Charles Manson death cult fame.
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Lesley Van Houten is still behind bars for allowing Manson to influence her thinking to such an extent that she willingly participated in the butchering of Leo and Rosemary la Bianco.
Even after all these years of thinking about her crimes, and no matter how genuinely sorry she may be, she has never been able to successfully articulate to the parole board why she allowed herself to become a willing participant in those murders.
She agrees she allowed Manson to control her mind. She has no excuse for why she allowed it other than she was young, needy and impressionable.
Linda Kasabian, also a Manson girl who went with the group to the Sharon Tate home, experienced the same mind games, drug and sex parties and intense pressure as the other girls did, but she chose not to participate in the killing. In fact, she had the courage to come forward and testify against her former ‘family’.
What made her different from Van Houten, Krenwinkle and Atkins?
Apparently, Kasabian had the inner strength/self-preservation to decide for herself she would not be manipulated into evil. The others defaulted to Manson.
The only real explanation that Van Houten has given for her actions is that she was desperate for Charlie’s approval. Sound familiar?
Should Van Houten have been given a more lenient sentence because Charlie ‘made’ her do it?
Given Mack’s track record of lack of character (not to mention embarrassing herself by behaving like a complete love-struck ninny on various videos), I don’t think it would be too much of a leap to believe Mack would have been manipulated to do anything Raniere asked of her.
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[…] Allison Mack and the Manson Girls of Charles Manson Death Cult Compared […]
Good points.
Another interesting comparison is that both Manson and Raniere borrowed heavily from Scientology. Manson had actually received more hours of “auditing” – NXIVMs “EM” process is very similar – than most active members of Scientology ever get, partly because it has gotten so expensive nowadays. And a Scientology “e-meter” used in auditing, was found among Manson possessions at the Spahn Ranch. And one of Manson’s lieutenants was significantly involved in Scientology even when part of the “family,” and apparently remains a prime suspect in the unsolved, gruesome murder of several scientologists.
I initially thought, and suggested, that the NXIVM trial might play out somewhat similar to Manson’s, such as when Susan “Sexy Sadie” Atkins reneged on her deal with the prosecution and supported Manson in her testimony. I think one difference was that the Manson girls were kept in the same jail and managed to maintain their connections and solidarity, while the NXIVM women were sent home and in most cases ended up either living with or spending a lot of time with family, which separated them and was likely to cause them to reconsider their loyalty to Raniere and the group.
But I see Nicky Cline as the figure comparable to “Squeaky” Fromme, the dedicated loyalist remaining free.
Also, I think Van Houten faces the problem that the parole board will just never grant freedom to any of the Manson killers, because the crime was so sensational and such a decision would be criticized and second-guessed, especially if anything went wrong. I’m pretty sure that there were other drug-addled female killers of the era, who eventually got parole even if they couldn’t entirely account for what they had done.
“If Allison Mack didn’t have the cutesy, girl-next-door face, almost no one would be defending her behavior in NXVIM.”
Sure, now another nutjob who believe he knows what’s in someone’s head…if you had all your screws, you wouldn’t be accusing a victims but once again, matter of point of view.
I defend her because contrary to you and some of the other losers here, i know her and i defend someone WHO DESERVE TO BE DEFENDED.
“So many people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to provide some rationale for her behavior simply because she has the America’s Sweetheart thing going for her, on Smallville and in ‘real life’.”
No, we don’t,you and the like of you scrap the bottom of the barrel and create stories to try to make her look like a monster…
We stick to the top of the barrel who show she is a victim.
“I am surprised more parallels have not been made between Allison Mack and the Manson Girls of Charles Manson death cult fame.”
Maybe because only an idiot do these kind of parallel as SHE DIDN’T KILL ANYONE.
“She agrees she allowed Manson to control her mind. She has no excuse for why she allowed it other than she was young, needy and impressionable.”
Not comparable…she might have allowed but much like the other victim of Raniere, Allison wasn’t asked if she authorized him to control her.
He started with little things, her diet and such so he could control her more…then add to this the EM which gave the first collaterals and the pressure to get more from her.
All this under a strict died , and you’ve got an Allison that was NEVER ASKED ANYTHING and became the toy (and obvious scapegoat for the low lifers).
“What made her different from Van Houten, Krenwinkle and Atkins?”
I don’t know, maybe the fact that she never killed anyone ? or maybe the PROOF that SHE WAS COERCED ?
Things you are ignoring on purpose for your idiotic story…
“Given Mack’s track record of lack of character (not to mention embarrassing herself by behaving like a complete love-struck ninny on various videos), I don’t think it would be too much of a leap to believe Mack would have been manipulated to do anything Raniere asked of her.”
You sure know a lot about Allison…BTW those videos are made after she was coerced and after the diet was pushed…
Let’s forget what Vicente said about Raniere breaking her (like he was doing to …Nicole who is what? i ask you? A VICTIM)
She wasn’t easily manipulated but had a major flaw…her beautiful heart was a bit too trusty.
She believed in good in everyone and even if she was not willing to continue with Nxivm,
She trusted Kristin to continue.
She also trusted Lauren and the other who love bombed her in 2009…
Then, like many people (including the other victims , like Allison, like Nicole, like India) , they wanted to believe Raniere was a good man.
I remind that Sarah Edmondson pretend she never really like him (now) but if she didn’t, why recruiting for him for 20 years (or close)?
Yeah, well maybe it was also for the money as Sarah made quite some money.
Allison was slowly dragged in this because at first she trusted them…she was genuinly misguided and abused.
Nothing you or Shivani, or Actaeon , or Shadowstate is base on ANY TANGIBLE FACTS…You interprete the STORIES as you want them to sound but IGNORE THE FACTS AND TRUTHS REVEALED IN COURT.
Another sad waste of my time…but it’s to expect, Week end is the days for the nuts to go out…
Mack was originally a victim who was manipulated into being a perp. End of story.
Yep. The same thing could also be said of most if not all of Manson’s girls.
Scott:
No, she is a victim till the end…all the victims were manipulated into being perps…Jaye was about to do the same (but the potential victim backed away).
She is nothing more than a victim.
India did the same crime as Allison and I don’t see anyone jumping all over her!?
Be constant, either she is a perp or a victim and the fact is the only crime committed is “minor” and consists in collecting the collateral. It’s bad enough already!
But let’s not forget that ALL THIS WAS DONE UNDER COERCION! Once again, I repeat. Something is said time and time:
If you decide to ignore the collateral and the coercion for Allison’s behavior (while also ignoring the obvious, genuine impact that the extreme diet and sleep deprivation had on her), you have to do it for the action of the other victims…
Including the fact that they accepted to do dark things for Raniere and have sex (even ask to have sex , Nicole admitted that)
If you remove the coercion from the equation, you have no crime (and, therefore, Allison has done Nothing)….If you consider the coercion, you have to do it for Allison too and this makes a hell of a defense!
You claim that you “know” her, and yet never have been able to provide any real insight into why she did what she did, or her history and background, such as her early long-term dysfunctional relationship with a fiancee’ who sounds like he might have been Raniere 1.0. For instance, what is it about her that has caused her to be in multiple relationships with manipulative and even abusive men, and to consistently ignore friends’ warnings?
You have also never been able to address why Mack had a unique position as Raniere’s henchwoman in DOS, such as coordinating the collateral collection and the designing of the branding ceremony, and ended up the only defendant indicted principally for DOS activities – by a grand jury and prosecution who reviewed more evidence and heard more witnesses than any of us. What do you think it was that Mack did, that got her indicted – and caused her to plead guilty – when none of the other slaves, including leaders of other pods, were?
AnonyMaker :
Who do you think you are to think i owe you any kind of proof? I Don’t have to prove anything, i already said that.
You and the like of you accuse permanently Allison of many things but never prove it while THIS IS NEEDED TO BE PROVED!
You remember me talking about Defamation per se? just like in trial, it’s the accusator to proof the accusation.
And honestly, i Don’t give a crap about what you Believe or not. I know what i know and like Always, you show you know NOTHING.
You go back with an unproved story about her early boyfriend that 1. doesn’t mean a thing about Allison (but of course, you Don’t care) and 2. you failed to prove (once again)
And you go about my relation with Allison? Once again Believe what you will…i Don’t care but even if i’m not intimate with Allison, it’s irrelevant to the fact that you fail to prove any of your accusation!!!
BTW, contrary to you, all the things i stated are not based on hearsay but on FACTS (from the court) so my relation with Allison has no meaning in this!
Your accusation have been disproved in court:
” coordinating the collateral collection ” Is it including her OWN COLLATERAL ? Don’t answer, you can’t, you Don’t have the intelligence necessary to argue.
You Believe you do but you tend to repeat lies and lies and lies.
The fact is :
She was collecting the collateral, they were “managed” by someone else…and from what Cami talked with Raniere, i’d say it was possible Rosa (i think it’s Rosa who was cited in the message as the one retaining the collateral)
So either they all had that responsability (and this mean, once again, that Allison didn’t do more than the others) or that Rosa was in charge…
You like to ignore the fact that Allison was collateralized, Something that i Don’t have to prove, it was released by the court!
You go with the grand jury and display your ignorance…this is a pre emptive strike…Not a formal accusation!
It was done hastly too (proof is in the changes in indictement against Allison)
The trial showed that the proof were not fitting the crime against Allison and prosecution failed to demonstrate (without a doubt) that she was doing anything but collecting.
But continue to ignore what the trial showed and continue with your fake stories…that’s all you can do!
If Allison Mack were named Yolanda Cortez and she came from the barrio and had pulled the same crap that Allison Mack had pulled, Yolanda would be in a cage for the next ten years.
Isn’t that right Yolanda?
Isn’t that right, Pea Onyu?
Shadow, they are not real posters. They fabricate posts to elicit responses from folks like you. They are yanking your chain.
It’s like when I was growing up and teased my little brother. After a while, it got too easy to get him upset. With the challenge gone, I stopped teasing him. Pea, Cortez, et al, must not be bored yet, so they keep yanking his chain. LOL
But we must keep in mind that what Raniere’s harem did pales in comparison to the Manson girls’ crimes– although both may be grounded on the same methodology.
A $64000 dollar unknown variable, however , is this: What was Raniere’s end game? It was escalating. When would it have otherwise stopped?
Manson was trying to start a race war, just like the fake news media is doing now. I don’t think Raniere had an end game, he was just doing random stuff like getting ready for a mass blowjob before the Mexican police interrupted the “ceremony.”
Absolutely. It’s appalling to me that anyone is comparing Mack or any of them to the Manson girls, who shed blood in multiple absolute butcheries. If you want to talk about it in terms of mind control techniques and cults in general, fine. But lets keep the “acts” in context.
Yes, Raniere was escalating, but whether he would have graduated to mass murder or group suicide is pure speculation.
I think Allison was Raniere’s Squeaky.
She says she still loves Charlie.
The similarities go very deep. From Kasabian’s wikipedia page:
“Kasabian was then introduced to Manson, a dramatic event for her. She thought that he looked magnificent in his buckskin clothing, and that he seemed to be Christ-like.[5] Manson talked with her about why she had come to the ranch, and after feeling her legs, he accepted her. That night, Manson and Kasabian had sexual relations in a Spahn Ranch cave. She thought that Manson could “see right through her” and that he was perceptive of her issues with her stepfather and her feelings of being “disposable” to the people in her life and to the world in general, as recorded in her trial testimony;”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Kasabian
‘Christ-like’
Hmmmm…like Vanguard?
A fluttering heart when he appeared?
Ability to spot her weakness?
And they all thought Manson was “helping the world.”
About Sandra Good:
“Sandra Collins Good (born February 20, 1944[1]) is a long-time member of the Manson Family and a close friend of Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme. Good’s Manson Family nickname is “Blue”, which was given to her by Charles Manson to represent clean air and water.”
“She also supported Manson’s environmental movement, ATWA (Air Trees Water Animals). The website went offline in 2001, but is archived.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Good
Next up: examine Raniere and Manson speech patterns.
You make some excellent comparisons. However, Linda Kasabian to me is just as culpable. She drove the car,and she was a lookout. She could have ran or drove for help. She did nothing. The next night at the Lobiancos, she did nothing to help these people. She did not have the stomach for it and she was scared but could have notified authorities. She got a sweet deal.
It’s not that simple because it’s not just the cutesy face, it’s the fact that Mack is a Hollyweird celebrity and played a sympathic character in the show. People get all spun up about a single celebrity and turn their backs at millions of regular folks getting scammed by other MLM scams. None of the Manson girls had cutesy faces and had nothing to do with being a Hollyweird celebrity or playing a sympathetic character. But they were much more loyal to Manson than the NXIVM Five were to Raniere. They folded like cheap tents.
Van Houton isn’t getting out of prison for more than just not being sorry and being able to explain why she followed Manson. She committed horrible crimes, FAR worse than Mack (I just triggered Mr. Shadow), may be viewed as not being honest, and there needs to be a deterrence factor. Each of these alone would be grounds for not releasing her, taken together it’s a slam dunk.
Dear Just An Observation,
Your statement…..
“If Allison Mack didn’t have the cutesy, girl next door face, almost no one would be defending her behavior in NXVIM.”
……is definitely complete 100% true.
However…..
If Allison Mack didn’t have the cutesy, girl next door face, almost no one would be attacking her……
Just Observation you should look in the mirror.
You know you would not be writing your polemic attacks along with Shadowstates articles….
(Continued from previous comment.)
….If Allison Mack was fat and ugly.
That actually makes no sense. If Allison Mack were fat and ugly, my point that she is being defended because she’s the cutesy America’s Sweetheart type would literally not exist. If Allison Mack WERE fat and ugly, those defending her would say it’s BECAUSE she is fat and ugly and that if she were a cutesy All American girl no one would be calling for her to face justice. So there’s that.
I never heard of Mack before this trial. I never watched Smallville and I have no interest in B list actresses and their drama. Especially those who are desperately trying to find meaning in their lives by recruiting other women into a fake empowerment group run by an insane GUY and then sharing their embarrassing and vapid “dear diary” entries with all the world.
She is a silly self absorbed girl, trying to find meaning in her life and she made some bad choices. I wish her no ill will but if she’s is actually interested in empowering herself she can start by take responsibility for those choices.
Just an Observation,
Both the Salzmans and the Bronfmans are as culpable or guilty as Allison Mack…
……But you and the other Mack haters write next to nothing about them!
Question: Why?
Answer: Because those defendants are all butt ugly.
Get a life!!!!
Just because the popular attractive girl in school never gave you the time of a day doesn’t mean you have to take it out on Allison Mack.
My observation was about Allison Mack and her cutie pie persona which elicits an unusual amount of sympathy from people who don’t want to hear a word against her because she is so doe-eyed and fragile.
She is probably a great girl who was taken advantage of and was led off the rails. But she went willingly. Being hungry is a defense? She. Starved. Herself. For love apparently. Not the decision of an empowered woman in my opinion. (And I am a woman.)
The others you mentioned do not generate that same protective instinct from others. It sounds like they are every bit as guilty as Allison. But they are not as wide-eyed or winsome as Miss Mack.
The Bronfmans sisters have their millions, their corrupt connections and their dangerous thirst for revenge.
The Salzman gals have their enormous capacity to seem pathetic.
Mack has her wide-eyed impish charm.
They are all using what they’ve got. It’s not rocket science.
Just an observation,
You are woman?
Than I guess you hate Allison because she represents the ‘popular’ girl.
I am not defending Mack as much as I am trying to ascertain why you want to crucify her.
Why hate her so much more than the others?
Niceguy, you wrote:
You are woman?
Than I guess you hate Allison because she represents the ‘popular’ girl.
I am not defending Mack as much as I am trying to ascertain why you want to crucify her.
Why hate her so much more than the others?
Your suggestion that I “hate” Allison for any reason, including that she represents the ‘popular girl’ is the go-to talking point for any woman who has a criticism of a young attractive woman and it is lame. Apparently you think all women are just that shallow and catty. We are not.
I don’t hate Allison nor do I want to crucify her. I don’t have any emotional reaction to any of them. I am simply speculating about the passionate defense of Allison. That is all. Keep on loving her. She needs friends. It’s fine with me.
Niceguy :
No, it’s not 100% true.
For my part, i defend her because i know her…Something that detractor can’t say.
They never pointed one verifiable thing and despites the proof, they ignore them and continue to make her the leader ,the mastermind of the cult…
But i agree with the second part of the statement.