Yesterday, I wrote a post in which I gave details of the bogus computer trespass charges that were brought against me, Barbara Bouchey, Toni Natalie and John Tighe back in 2015 by Albany County Special District Attorney Holly A. Trexler.
Those charges alleged that the four of us had illegally accessed NXIVM’s website without authorization.
As I explained in that post, the reason why the Albany County charges were bogus is because the servers that hosted NXIVM’s precious website were NEVER in Albany County at the times the alleged transgressions took place.
Instead, they were housed in Steve Ose’s house back in Saratoga County.
At least that’s where they were until I raised questions about the location of the servers and Kristin Keeffe bravely came forward to confirm that the servers had been moved – AFTER THE ALBANY COUNTY INDICTMENTS WERE ISSUED AT THE BEHEST OF MS. TREXLER – from Saratoga County to Albany County in order to create a faux jurisdictional basis for the prosecution to take place there.
In effect, everyone who participated in the moving of the computers participated in several criminal acts by perpetrating this fraud upon the courts.
And the “good news” is that we now have a witness who will testify that he saw the servers in question being hastily installed into an Albany County location after they had been removed from Steve Ose’s house.
*****
New Evidence & Testimony Indicates That The Whole Case Started With A Lie
As I also recounted yesterday, I was never worried about the original computer trespass complaint that had been filed in Saratoga County because I had been informed by Toni Natalie that Mary Jane Pino had given Toni her NXIVM Username and Password so that she and others could access the NXIVM website.
Since we had permission from Mary Jane to use her NXIVM credentials, we would not be trespassing. The fact that NXIVM had failed to invalidate Mary Jane’s Username and Password after she left the program was their problem, not ours.
Now, however, new evidence appears to indicate that Toni lied to me – and to everyone else who got caught up in the computer trespass case – about how she obtained Mary Jane’s Username and Password.
In a comment that was posted earlier today, Mary Jane noted: “They did NOT have permission to use a password. NO ONE did. John Tighe had the integrity to finally admit it. And that is all I’m going to say on the subject” (We have since verified that this comment did, in fact, come from the same Mary Jane Pino mentioned in the post).
But, as it turns out, that’s not all that Mary Jane Pino had to say about the matter.
In a sworn affidavit that she signed on January 30, 2012, Mary Jane was even more emphatic about the fact that she never gave Toni – nor anyone else – permission to use her Username and Password to access the NXIVM website.
In that affidavit, Mary Jane made the following statements:
– I am a former member of NXIVM and have not been a member since August 2003.
– While I was a member of NXIVM, I was a registered user and able to log into the NXIVM internet site with a user name and password provided to me by NXIVM.
– I have never provided my login information to anyone or authorized or permitted anyone to log into the NXIVM internet site through the use of my login information.
– I have been informed by representatives of NXIVM that, from approximately May 10, 2010 to March 10, 2011, my former user name and password were employed by persons unknown during various attempted logins and successful logins to the NXIVM internet site. Said acts were not done or authorized by me, and I do not know the identity of the person or persons who performed such acts.
Heidi Hutchinson also weighed in on this matter today – and confirmed that Toni had also told her the same made-up story about how she had obtained Mary Jane Pino’s Username and Password. And Heidi is just lucky that she was living on the West Coast at the time that NYSPSenior Investigator Rodger Kirsopp undertook his bullshit investigation regarding this matter – or she would have been arrested with the rest of us for alleged computer trespass.
So, who do we believe here?
Toni Natalie – who told me and others that Mary Jane had given permission for her NXIVM Username and Password to be used by Toni and others.
Or Mary Jane Pino – who provided a sworn affidavit back in 2012 that would subject to a charge of perjury if it contains falsehoods – and who reached out as late as today to reaffirm that she never shared her credentials with Toni or anyone else.
For me, that’s a very easy choice.
*****
The Damage That A Lie Can Do
I don’t know how Toni got Mary Jane’s Username and Password.
And I don’t think she necessarily had any ill intentions in making up the story about how she obtained those credentials.
The problem, however, is that her lie did a lot of damage to innocent people – none of which can likely be remedied.
To begin with, Toni’s lie led several people – including me – to access NXIVM’s website. And while none of who did so committed any crimes because we honestly believed we had been given permission to do so by an authorized user – there were nevertheless huge negative results for all of us.
*****
The Civil Lawsuit
First, NXIVM initiated a federal civil lawsuit against me, Toni, John, Suzanna Andrews, and James Odato
Hundreds of thousands of dollars were expended by the defendants in that lawsuit. And while the lawsuit was ultimately dismissed because Clare Bronfman was caught, once again, perjuring herself in a court filing, none of those fees were ever refunded.
In addition, James Odato – who up until that point had been the Times Union lead reporter regarding NXIVM’s illegal activities – was let go by the newspaper. A fantastic career done in by a stupid and unnecessary lie.
Although Suzanna Andrews was not let go by Vanity Fair magazine, she definitely ended up with a blot on her professional record.
And had Clare’s perjury not been exposed, it’s quite possible that NXIVM could have won this lawsuit (This lawsuit did not have the same false jurisdictional problem that the subsequent criminal lawsuit in Albany County would have).
*****
The Criminal Lawsuit
Had Toni not lied to us about how she obtained Mary Jane’s Username and Password, John Tighe and I would never have utilized those credentials to access NXIVM’s website.
That means that John Tighe’s computers would never have been seized by the New York State police – and, ultimately, that John would have never gone to federal prison.
It also means that I would have been released six weeks earlier than I was from the Metropolitan Detention Center where I was serving time for a separate charge (Even though the Albany County charge was dismissed, it took time for the paperwork to get processed through the federal system).
*****
I have no idea why Toni chose to lie to so many people about Mary Jane Pino’s Username and Password.
Nor do I understand why she has never apologized to any of us for all the damage that her lie caused us.
I just hope she’ll use her upcoming podcast – and/or her upcoming book – to set the record straight about what she did here.
If she doesn’t, then, at least for me, she’s just the same as all the other grifters who tried to make a buck off the NXIVM criminal enterprise and never took any responsibility for their own actions.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
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[…] the favor and offer more stories in the near future. Here is a select sampling from the past: Pino Refutes Natalie’s Claim – Computer Trespass Case May Have Started With a Lie July 26, 2019 New Book by Toni Natalie: ‘The Program: Inside the Mind of Keith […]
[…] Pino Refutes Natalie’s Claim – Computer Trespass Case May Have Started With a Lie […]
[…] Pino Refutes Natalie’s Claim – Computer Trespass Case May Have Started With a Lie […]
How can Natalie write a book about the rise and fall of NXIVM when she wasn’t even a part of it but for a nanosecond?
Everything in her book would be stolen from talking to others.
Did she ever get permission to use anything from having a conversation over the years?
Does she have release forms from people saying it’s ok she can use their stories?
Natalie was at the top of Raniere’s criminal enterprise in CBI and headed up his less than legal organization National Health Network. NHN were diehards from CBI, who followed Raniere and Natalie into NXIVM.
Natalie left before the first year of NXIVM as one of the highest-ranking members at the time.
Why would Natalie be required to obtain a release from somebody to write a book, unless it was agreed at the time the information was confidential? I write about Amway and other MLM scams all the time, and have never obtained a release.
Who were the people who followed Raniere from CBI and NHN to NXIVM? Did anyone follow him from Amway or other MLM scams Raniere was involved in to CBI?
Just to be clear and in no way to defend Toni Natalie’s actions.
The part of NXIVM server that was available upon use of Mary Jane password gave those access to NXIVM’S social site, not their entire company’s server.
Knowing NXIVM and how they lie to the authorities, they most likely told them the “hackers had everything.
So what did those who “hacked” have access to?
Names, addresses, student numbers, and phone numbers of coaches. Wow, how dangerous!
Upcoming trainings. Wow, how dangerous!
Upcoming introductions to NXIVM events. Wow, wow, wow, now that is really scary!
Since Mary Jane was not a high ranking member, she had little access. Those of higher rank would only have access to their own organization financial information.
NXIVM most likely told the authorities these “hackers” had access to all their intellectual property, their financials, etc.
So NYS spends how much money going after these evil hackers when right under their noises they have Albany’s largest criminal enterprise telling them lie after lie.
Bahahahahahaha
What a joke, they are still trying to get all the fuciegg off their faces.
It could be they didn’t know all of the information limitations of getting into Mary Jane’s (love the weed implication!) account. Plus, if they wanted to contact the NXIVM people regarding what was going on to get them to quit or get additional information from them, then names, addresses, emails, and phone numbers is very valuable information.
Everybody’s missing the point, including Frank. He’s not doing his profession (journalism) any favors by remaining mostly silent here.
It doesn’t matter if Toni said it’s ‘cool’ or not.
It just doesn’t matter what Toni told Joe O’Hara or Tighe.
Why?
Their INTENT to stealthily access a computer system shows their bad intentions.
EVERYBODY involved here (Toni, O’Hara and Tighe) had KNOWLEDGE that NXIVM would NEVER give them permission to access their computer system after they became enemies. That’s their bad ‘intent’.
NXIVM is the owner of that computer system. Period.
Let me simplify it even further…
The ONLY THING that matters is whether O’Hara, Toni and Tighe believed (in their own minds) that NXIVM had approved their access or not.
Here’s an analogy…
Let’s say that a government employee is given a username/password to a government computer system. If they choose to voluntarily give out that username/password on the Internet with permission for anybody to use their login, that does NOT make it legal for people to access the government computer (even though they were given permission by the employee).
Why?
Cuz the government OWNS the system and everybody using that login KNOWS (has ‘intent’) that they are accessing the system without REAL permission from the system owner.
I challenge Joe O’Hara, Toni and Tighe to confirm if they truly believed that NXIVM wouldn’t mind them accessing their computer system like that.
Their ‘intent’ was obviously to STEALTHILY access NXIVM computers without NXIVM knowing it was them.
That’s not a moral or legal thing to do, regardless of what “Toni told Joe”. LOL.
Just because NXIVM may have illegally switched server locations (to facilitate an indictment) does not mean that the original computer trespass was kosher. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Frank is dropping the ball here by remaining silent.
Just because Joe is well-liked doesn’t mean that everybody has to agree with him on everything he posts.
You can’t justify a computer trespass by blaming Toni. It was not legal regardless of what Toni told them.
Toni is no more (or less) immoral than Joe or Tighe. They are all in the same boat IMO. They all have unclean hands.
I see no saints here. 🙂
I can’t speak for any of the others to whom Toni gave Mary Jane Pino’s log-in information but I can tell you that thinking I had Mary Jane’s permission to use that information was a major factor in my decision to use it. Had I known that information had been stolen or otherwise obtained illegally, I would not have used it.
I do not dispute your point that I was acting “stealthily” when I accessed NXIVM’s website. At that time, Raniere and his top-level staff were in the midst of crushing me personally and professionally – and I didn’t want to tip them off that I was looking for evidence of the crimes I already knew they were committing (tax evasion, money laundering, etc.). Not that it did any good, but every bit of information that I obtained from NXIVM’s website was turned over to federal and state officials – and not one of them raised any issues about how it had been obtained.
Your analogy about accessing a government agency’s computer system is inappropriate. What I did was much more like accessing a terrorist organization’s computer system.
Given your usually astute analysis of matters, I’m somewhat surprised that you don’t think Toni did anything wrong in lying to us about how she obtained Mary Jane’s username and password. By not telling us the truth she induced us into thinking that Mary Jane had sanctioned our use of her information – an issue that would have been a major part of my defense if I had ever been legitimately charged with the crime of computer trespass.
Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are.
Toni spent 9 years in a relationship with Keith!
I rest my case.
Yeah, Natalie goes back to the days of the CBI pyramid scheme. I can’t remember, was she one of the ones actually sanctioned by the state when it was shut down for fraud?
My first thought when I heard about the computer trespass charges where: “No way. It’s a set up.” Why did I feel this way? Because I knew Keith would stop at nothing to get his enemies, and because I knew THERE WAS NO WAY TONI, JOE, JIM, OR JOHN would be stupid enough to go onto the NXIVM website without authorization from NXIVM. NXIVM was stopping at nothing to try and take them down. Zero chance that they would give Keith any ammunition to get to them.
Maybe I’ll buy “Toni said it’s cool” as an excuse from one of them. But for all of them to go onto the NXIVM site using the login credentials of someone named Mary Jane? If that’s true, I’ve been seriously overestimating the common sense and intelligence of all of them.
That was my first thought, too, Nutjob, and what I believe to this day. Pino or whomever gave Toni the password to share did so to lure NX enemies into committing a “crime.” On the other side of it Ose and Myers were waiting to catch the VPN (and server location, whatever identifying factors they could) ID’s of whomever logged on for NX attorneys and Kirsopp to make their bogus case. I even discussed this possibility with Toni when she told me about it — that she had the access she
thought freely given by NX defectors who were part of the NXIVM 9 women who left led by Barbara Bouchey and Susan Dones. I’ll write more deets later if I get some time. It was a set-up on everyone, IMO — Joe, John T., Jim O’dato, Suzanna Andrews, Barb (who inexplicably, knowingly volunteered) and Toni herself. Also, I never logged on, personally.
Thank you for sharing.
Frank,
Wtf is going on up here with SOP and the other meetings? What is going on with all that?
One word against another, under oath or not… They’re all a lying sack of criminals.
Whatever she did. It was to take down the nxivm reign. I don’t think she lied to anyone. She has been a great help for authorities to burn it down and to get kr into jail. Bravo!!!
She did nothing to help the takedown. Zero. Zip. Why would you think she was a help to the authorities? Oh right, the Toni Natalie fantasy story. Just like she “helped” all her friends log on to the NXIVM system.
Zip, anonymous #2? STFU. If you are that ignorant to the facts or are that willing to blatantly lie, you aren’t even worth this time to respond to.
Nutjob you are the one oblivious to the facts. What do you know firsthand – nothing. The truth is coming out about Toni Natalie as it should.
Wrong
Only the good die young. The bigger question for me is why when NDNY and NYS officials have known for at least 9 years that the ESP/NXIVM curriculum “Rational Inquiry” includes modules on when and how suicide and statutory rape is appropriate, NXIVM YET REMAINS in business. Nor have any of these crimes or deaths been investigated to this day?!!
Glory grabbers, liars, whatevers though many NXIVM “victims” may be, they’re not to blame for the continued abject failure of law enforcement to investigate the deaths, near deaths, mental breakdowns and statutory rapes proudly perpetrated by NXIVM and its supporters.
Having an opinion that suicide and statutory rape is appropriate aren’t crimes. Which deaths weren’t investigated? Just because there aren’t enough facts to prosecute doesn’t mean the investigation never took place. It helps to report the crimes immediately, such as the statutory rape of your sister in 1984 (an appropriate Orwelian year).
I agree.
It’s even more perplexing that certain people remained silent about Raniere bedding underage girls, even after catching him in the act. Such people were, in essence, enablers of such behavior by not contacting the cops asap. It would seem that nobody in this story has clean hands.
My, my. Where to apply the blame… It is quite perplexing. Isn’t it? We are all enablers.
LOL, you obviously didn’t catch the inside joke directed towards a particular person.
Now go back to chowing down on your girl scout cookies and stuffing your face with ice cream, you middle-aged blimp. 🙂
I’m guessing that you’re America’s equivalent of the paranoid Vancouverite (Flowers).
LOL. I understood your feeble attempt at an inside joke, fool. It’s quite ironic because YOU are the joke! buohahahahahhhhhahahahahah!!!
I have to wonder why Frank would post Bangkoks insults, Girl Scout. Trying to stir up controversy or he secretly enjoys the misogyny?
Btw, Bangkok, it could only be referred to as paranoia if the incidents that concern me never happened…
But since I was harrassed and then the harassers later tried to intimidate me with legal action what would I be paranoid about?
I’m Loving It !
“The bigger question for me is why when NDNY and NYS officials have known for at least 9 years that the ESP/NXIVM curriculum “Rational Inquiry” includes modules on when and how suicide and statutory rape is appropriate, NXIVM YET REMAINS in business.”
Freedom of expression?
Keith and his modules didn t directly said that this is okay to statutory rape or to kill yourself. Saying that suicide can be right in some situations is quite stupid but it is not illegal. The problem was that Keith’s actions were folowing his discourses.
Much ado about nothing. Who cares?
This is like someone leaving the door to their house unlocked and someone else walking in and having a look around without their permission, but otherwise causing no real harm. Yeah, it may technically be illegal, but no pain was inflicted. Coaches lists? Schedules of classes. Some already ripped-off content being seen. This whole set of events just emphasizes how dickish the inner circle of NXIVM is. How they used and abused the law when it suited their purposes. They had no qualms about breaking the law when they saw fit.
They couldn’t leave well enough alone and so here we are seven or eight years later with their fake leader in jail where he’ll hopefully spend the rest of his years.
Good job guys!
Yeah, what Toni did may have hurt some people, some of whom were already in a dogfight with NXIVM, but I doubt Toni could’ve foreseen what happened and how the laws that are getting more and more complex by the day would be abused in such a way. But ignorance is no excuse! Yeah, like normal people have a ton of free time to read thousand page law books in their spare time. I’m sure she had no intent to harm Tighe who she was already helping at the time, nor someone like James Odato.
If they were accessing names/phone numbers/emails in an effort to contact those people and destroy NXIVM, that would be an illegal method of doing so, no matter how evil they believed NXIVM was and turned out to be.
Who cares?
I would guess John Tighe, Jim Odato, Joe O’Hara, Heidi Hutchinson, Suzanna Andrews and anyone else Toni gave the stolen info to.
The issue isn’t that Toni somehow got Pino’s password and username. It’s that she lied to others about how she got it, thereby setting them up to be charged with crimes.
Her decision to use to Pino’s information is her business. But her decision to mislead others about how she got that information is diabolical.
“Who cares” is a rhetorical reemphasis of the previous statement. It wasn’t a question to be answered.
You don’t need the law to tell you that you’re playing with fire when you access a website via some info you got from a person who had been suffering the wrath of NXIVM and Raniere for over a decade and you too were also already an enemy of NXIVM. You fight with the devil expect to get hurt. If you wanted to be real careful then you should’ve got permission right from the source because of the enemy you were dealing with.
Regardless, the law is a two way street. It’s there to help people, not be abused to abuse others. In principle it’s there to implement justice based on the truth to protect people from serious harm, not be some overly drawn out, nit picky rules to stick to, nor something to be weaponized.
Yes, who cares? Let’s all lie about everything.
I’m convinced Toni Natalie was Raniere’s first sociopathic front-woman. Before there was Clare Bronfman enslaving women, Toni Natalie was the evil overlord. I personally experienced her story of her time with Keith dramatically changing after she insinuated herself into the lives of the NXIVM 9. Basically, she co-opted Barbara Bouchey’s life story as her own. I felt very sorry for Barb about this but it seems Barb was disinterested in getting into the mud with Toni and took the high road. Jim Odato is one victim of many. I don’t see Toni publishing anything anytime soon. She’d never survive the fact-checking and she’s got a significant history of criminal conduct. Toni might have gotten away with lying to DOS girls and young Nxians while everyone was fighting Keith Raniere. Her brand of bullshit won’t fly in the real world though.
She has a “significant history of criminal conduct”? Care to elaborate?
We would appreciate some facts here, because your accusations are quite serious. Stop bullshitting and being vague: be precise and factual please.
You’re protecting long time perpetrators and enablers like [redacted] (yes, I’m sure you’ll redact the name) and [redacted] (what – no longer culpable for all the damage they caused because they said “sorry” and gave evidence?) but you’re going to tear into Toni who’s been battling this monstrosity for 20 years?
NXIVM/Raniere sets people up – collateral, right!? There may be lies and set ups here, but I don’t think any of us are omniscient enough to know who is lying or perjuring or setting up or just plain trying to protect themselves any way they can. This whole pile on here smells like a setup to me.
Toni Natalie was not “battling this monstrosity for 20 years”. If you think comments on this blog are a “hatchet job”, you’re the one who’s being setup.
Wait, just because Pino swore in an affadavit, that doesn’t necessarily mean she couldn’t possibly be lying.
What if Pino DID give it to Natalie and told her “give it to whomever you want, I want to see NXIVM taken down,” having no idea that it was illegal or that it could come back and bite her (Pino) in the ass?
And then when Natalie got caught Pino realized that SHE would be charged and decided to sign a sworn statement to cover her own ass?
I’m not saying Joe is wrong here, because I honestly don’t know. But if Joe’s ONLY reason is that Pino signed an affadavit that seems like a pretty flimsy reason.
Mary Jane voluntarily signed an affidavit, under oath, that would open her up to a criminal charge of perjury if it contains information that she knows to be false. If Toni wants to sign a similar affidavit, under oath, stating her claim that Mary Jane gave permission for her and others to use Mary Jane’s log-in information, then I’ll consider the issue of who’s lying a toss-up.
Have you asked Toni to sign an affidavit? Did she refuse?
No, I haven’t done that – and that’s actually a great idea.
So, note to Toni – who reads this blog and every comment on it:
Please provide me with an affidavit, sworn under oath, in which you confirm that Mary Jane Pino voluntarily gave you her NXIVM username and password – and told you it was OK for you and others to use her credentials to access NXIVM’s website.
I know this is everyone’s favorite place for drama and dirty laundry, but don’t you have her phone #?
Toni told the police she got the password from Mary Pino and then she got arrested anyway. After Toni’s arrest, the evidence against her was presented to a Grand Jury and she was indicted. That’s because unlike Joe O’Hara, Toni did not merely log on the NXIVM system. She logged on obsessively for years, culminating in her uploading sophisticated computer code to corrupt the NXIVM system, and convert portions of the server into a massive data dump of confidential customer info. Which she then took. No matter who’s password she had, this was illegal and Toni knew it. She was charged with three felonies.
Unfortunately for Joe, Heidi, Barbara, Jim Odato, and the Vanity Fair reporter they were all unaware of this and got caught in the crossfire of Toni’s corruptness and lies.
The same hacking skills/hacker she employed to convert the NXIVM data were probably used to steal Mary Pino’s login credentials to begin with. Then Toni convinced her “friends” to login too, saying it was ok, to cover her tracks. Truly sinister.
Appreciate the response, Joe, that provides the clarity I was seeking.
I worked with Jim Odato for more than 20 years and I never met a journalist with higher standards or more integrity. To find out that his career was torpedoed by Toni Natalie’s lie is very disheartening. What the hell was she thinking? Almost makes me wonder if she’s the one who set this whole thing up for NXIVM.
Anyone with high standards and integrity would not use someone else’s password, particularly if it was intended to be used against the organization being investigated. Althought the definition of high standards and integrity of a journalist may be different than most others.
James Odato was and is an investigative journalist of high standards and integrity who was careful and thorough about vetting his stories. He was also respectful of individuals’ boundaries about the information they shared with him. I cannot say I see his like here with this current witch hunt.
Thanks for the work done by this blog previously – at the moment, it is squandering the trust it built.
This can’t be good for Natalie’s future podcast and book sales, although I think she waited too long and there won’t be much interest regardless. However, Omar is a heavily fined and suspended lawyer who sells his book here, so anything is possible.
All of this lying and back-stabbing also partially explains why the anti-NXIVM coalition never got off the ground until Frank came along.
How did Natalie get Pino’s user name and password? Writing it down or sharing it with anybody defeats the purpose, so did Pino give it to Natalie for her personal use and then Natalie lied about it being available for others to use, or did Pino stupidly write it down and Natalie steal it? Either way, it appears Natalie lied, so I suggest each tells their story to Frank and see if the stories match.
Hey, leave Omar alone.
He is a legal visionary.
He learned that it is easier to chase a wheelchair than an ambulance.
Natalie could also have gotten it through hacking, such as with a keylogger, and possibly even in other ways we might not have though of – another one that occurs to me, is saved login credentials on a browser.
But ultimately, someone is lying and it’s not clear who. Given the scruples of the NXIVM crowd, I don’t find one of them having claimed something in a sworn statement, to be conclusive. Pino was under no real jeopardy, because it comes down to he-said-she-said between her and Natalie, and prosecutors could never have successfully pursued a case against her even if she wasn’t telling the truth – and just look at Bronfman, who was getting away with far worse, with no consequences.
Most are liars. Especially the ones that refuse to speak out due to the fact that then they would have to spew lies that would effect their professional career, They are reluctant to say what they did in the cult, are dishonest about when they left the cult, all to cover their phony baloney asses.
In Scientology, there is definitely doctrine and policy that it’s “ethical” to tell “acceptable truths” – evasions and lies – to “wog” authorities and “suppressives.” Raniere deliberately copied Scientology, including their ends-justify-the-means approach to “ethics,” and while I haven’t seen explicitly seen him condone lying and perjury, I’m pretty sure that’s also implicit in the NXIVM worldview.
Yeah, there’s no actual ethics and responsibility demonstrated, when it comes down to it.
http://howagain.com/password-sharing-could-land-you-in-jail/
United States v. Nosal.
This several-year battle ended with the courts declaring only a system owner can offer authorization, not a user or employee. Basically, ex-employee Nolan asked a current employee for their password to access customer data. Granted, that’s bad, but it was argued that the ex-employee had authorization and a willfully provided password doesn’t circumvent any security protocols. However, since the system owner hadn’t given explicit permission, the access was unauthorized, which makes that access illegal under the CFAA. So basically, that means Nosal was guilty of hacking for simply using someone else’s password with their permission.
Summary of Rulings:
1) Using someone else’s authorized password is illegal hacking.
Basically, being given authorization from an authorized person still makes you unauthorized unless the system owner specifically gives you authorization him/herself. So even if you’re not hacking through security protocols, per se, you’re still hacking.
2) Giving out your password is illegal.
While this would appear to be a simple terms-of-use violation, if third-party use of your password is a federal crime under the CFAA, then just giving that third-party your password is also illegal. That is, you’re helping someone commit a crime.
================
Whether Toni lied or not is NOT RELEVANT to the alleged crime of computer trespassing.
Ignorance of the law is no defense.
O’Hara and Tighe are, therefore, wrong in their assessment that if ‘permission’ was given (as per Toni’s claim) they’d be legally allowed to use it. They wouldn’t be allowed to use it UNLESS the OWNER of the SYSTEM gave permission.
Sorry, Joe. You’re wrong, buddy.
The Nosal decision is from the U.S. 9th Circuit Court – and is hardly the “law of the land” right now. Let’s see how other Circuit Courts handle this same issue – and, ultimately, how the U.S. Supreme Court handles it.
The Electronic Frontier Federation – and many other consumer groups – have vowed to fight the Nosal decision. Should it be upheld, then hundreds of thousands of people who share someone else’s Netflix account will be going to jail.
And legal staff/paralegals e-filing for their attorney-bosses under their accounts are committing crimes? Not bloody likely.
“The Nosal decision is from the U.S. 9th Circuit Court – and is hardly the “law of the land” right now.”
AMEN!
If O’Hara is wrong, why didn’t the case go forward in the appropriate county? Probably because the case you cited came AFTER the NXIVM lawsuit, and it wasn’t settled law at the time.
A better question for O’Hara is what was the exact reason(s) the case was dropped in the original county?
I’m not a lawyer, but this is exactly the line of thinking I went down. My neighbor has a key to my house in case I get locked out etc. That doesn’t mean that he has the right to give permission to other people to enter my house. Or that even if he gives that permission that those other people would be justified in thinking it was ok w/o direct permission from me. Not that it’s the same level of trespassing. And I certainly don’t think accessing the website was a big deal or justified all the BS, the accessors went through… but arguing that you had “permission” seems rather specious and I’m guessing disingenuous.
Bangkok,
Your reading comprehension skills are nonexistent.
Stick to playing Fortnight and masturbating to Gilfs….
Your mom must curse God everyday for making her fertile.
Have a great day you little dip sh*t! 😉
It seems to me that the glaring question is, if Pino didn’t willingly give Natalie her NXIVM system password, then how else did Natalie get it? Someone is lying, and has probably committed perjury (Natalie would at least have had to have lied to investigators, which is an equivalent crime), I don’t think it’s clear who.
So, assuming what Joe is saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt him, let’s be real about a few things.
1. I’m sure Toni feels worse about this than anyone. She’s probably a little over getting sued and having people try to put her in jail – so maybe just maybe she’s been a little hesitant and late to come to the apology table.
2. Saying Toni is trying to make a buck off of NXIVM because she was going to start a podcast 6 months ago is a joke. NXIVM has made her broke 100 times over. Although, speaking of lucrative podcasts that may or may not exist, I’m sure Scott Johnson is living it up while he makes millions off of the Amway criminal enterprise.
3. Toni needs to write a book. We all need to read it. She saw and went through shit that we can only imagine. If she doesn’t end up writing a book, I’d sure hope that SOMEWHERE she fully discloses what has transpired over the last 30 years.
1. If Natalie feels worse than anybody, her silence is a strange way of demonstrating it.
2. I make nothing from my podcast, except the satisfaction that I’m helping people not get scammed by Amway and other MLM scams, which is priceless.
3. Why would anyone want to read a book from a known liar?
1. Talking/apologizing/podcasting/book writing about things that could get you into legal trouble is a slippery slope.
2. Maybe if niceguy will shimmy up his skirt, it’ll help build your audience to a point where you can monetize.
3. Toni has literally been in survival mode since Feb 1999. She has had no need to lie because she had the truth on her side. NXIVM was a litigation machine. Why anyone (especially an enemy of NXIVM) would go onto a NXIVM website without having authorization from NXIVM is the real head scratcher. If “Toni told me it would be ok” is all that Jim, Joe, John etc needed to hear….
1. It’s only slippery if you’re lying.
2. No thanks.
3. If Natalie had no need to lie, why isn’t she refutting the claims here? Or are you Natalie?
1. Appears like she may have lied about this Mary Jane password thing.
2. Entertain us
3. Not her but she was somebody who I used to know. I think she was good person who got tricked into a relationship with a narcissistic psychopath. I’d guess she wants to speak (see podcast and book aspirations) but is afraid of causing a reemergence of the endless legal drama.
1. Maybe she was lying about Mary Jane’s consent. But I doubt she’s felt safe from getting sued/arrested or safe from violence for the last 20+ yrs. Hopefully, this changed the moment Keith was found guilty. Everything was slippery when Keith aimed his wrath at you.
2. Flowers?
3, I’d guess she’ll tell all in the book. I’m not Natalie, but know what I’m talking about. I share if I feel I have something relevant to share.
1. If she lied, all she did was make it legitimate when Raniere sued her.
2. Double no thanks.
3. She may tell all, but if she’s a known liar, why would anyone be interested in buying the book?
Toni Natalie will never, ever tell the truth. For that, we can be sure. Your story is merely one of at least a dozen lies Toni Natalie has told that tremendously hurt people.
You and Heidi Hutchinson should sue her. I bet other people have legal claims against her too. Keith Raniere is a monster; nevertheless,
two wrongs don’t make a right. If someone was doing something criminally or civilly illegal they don’t get a pass because 3 years later Keith Raniere got arrested.
Can you share some of the dozens of lies, or do you just want that vague accusation to be thrown out for all to read?
It doesn’t matter very much because we don’t know who either one of you are.
What I don’t understand is what would have been Tonie’ interests with this lie? What could she gains? Unless someone has a proof, I will still believe that Tonie had no bad intentions. Some pleople now are pleased to make vague accusations about Tonie (out of the blue because until now I ve never read anything bad about her on frankreport) but nobody brings some facts, so Im very suspecful.