Editor’s Note: There has been significant debate over when Kristin Kreuk left Nxivm.
When she did leave, she left quietly so there is no public record of it. She made her first and I believe only public statement critical of Nxivm on Twitter, three days after the arrest of Keith Raniere in March 2018. Her Twitter statement suggests she left in 2012-2013.
There was, however, a Facebook post, written by a man who thanks Kreuk for encouraging him to take a Nxivm Intensive in 2015.
This guest view by one of out regular commenter, AnonyMaker, asks readers to examine the evidence before jumping to a conclusion that Kreuk was a member of Nxivm years later than she initially told the public.
AnonyMaker
Here are three reasons why people should not jump to the conclusion that Kristin Kreuk was a member of Nxivm beyond 2012-2013, when she admitted she left.
1: The references to Kristin Kreuk coaching at a Nxivm intensive in 2012/13 are relative, since the account was published in late 2017 and the author said it was “about 5 years ago.”
We don’t know exactly when after the 2012 revelations in the Albany Times Union [that Nxivm leader Keith Raniere was a pedophile], Kreuk said that she left.
2: Kreuk was tagged by a man who attended a Nxivm 5-Day Intensive for her “encouragement” in a Facebook post in May 2015. What that constituted, is not at all clear, and apparently no attempt has been made to confirm with the source, Mark Busse, what he actually meant. The history of similar cases of people trying to interpret such hints of information, is that they tend to read too much into them.
Frank Parlato, on the other hand, has sources that said Kruek left in 2013. His sources have a history of providing accurate insider information. These sources may even include someone like Sarah Edmondson herself, who just doesn’t want to go on the record.
3: There’s not a shred of corroborating evidence, like any actual reports of Kreuk being in attendance at a course or event, or on a list of coaches, after 2012 – and apparently, the effort to scour the bowels of the internet for clues about Kreuk turned up just that one inconclusive social media reference, [Busse] nothing more.
When there is one bit of anomalous data, it gets discarded, not turned into the centerpiece of a theory.
Ironically, this obsession with Kreuk is an example of just the sort of culty thinking that NXIVM and Raniere exploited. Given people prone to believing what they want to, without adequate proof, they can be lead to believe in a “mission,” a man who can supposedly walk in the rain without getting wet, an Illuminati conspiracy, or almost anything.
I’ll admit, the one social media tag does raise a question – though Frank did the right sort of thing, by checking with his insider sources, which virtually settles it. But the case for it supposedly being proof of something – that Kruek was still in Nxivm in 2015 – is being approached more as a matter of fervent belief than rational objectivity.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
I’m not a Kreuk defender, but what does it matter anymore when she officially left?
You don’t think it matters whether she was cauterized (branded)?
Please explain why it matters.
Again, who cares. This has been hashed and rehashed.
“Anonymous
July 13, 2019 at 12:22 pm”
Kristin Kreuk and Kendra Voth were planning to relaunch their NXIVM project Girls By Design as recently as July 2013, one year and five months after Keith Raniere was exposed as a pedophile.
On their GBD site, 12th July 2013: “Hey ladies, we are redesigning our site…send us some examples of sites you like the LOOK of:)”
https://www.facebook.com/pg/gbdfan/posts/?ref=page_internal
On their “Kristin Kendra” page, Kendra Voth left a message from her personal account saying “we are working on a comeback and are pretty excited :)”.
On 8th September 2016, Kreuk answered a question on twitter about Girls By Design:
https://twitter.com/MsKristinKreuk/status/774052774677852160
“complicated. We hit a few obstacles and life stuff. I support @iamthatgirl b/c they do similar work.#batb”
Whatever these “obstacles” and “life stuff” was, it wasn’t falling out with NXIVM as Kreuk was still coaching for them at least two years (2015) after they were planning to relaunch.
This is just more tiresome grasping at straws.
It was Voth, not Kreuk, who posted in mid-2013 – about something that never came to fruition, perhaps because her presumption of “we” was mistaken and Kreuk was no longer onboard.
And in 2016, Kreuk deflects an inquiry and recommends something other than GBD – what do you expect her to text, particularly if she’s been given some wise PR advice to avoid controversy about NXIVM?
And again, it’s been demonstrated that it’s factually unlikely that Kreuk was still coaching in 2015, despite one obscure reference that might be interpreted otherwise.
It’s all is the same sort of obsessive, factually and logically challenged culty thinking, that we see from the likes of “Pea” and “Yolanda.”
Plus Voth’s more prominent involvement here, is also a reminder that if you were really interested in investigating who was culpable in NXIVM, She isn’t as deserving of scrutiny as Kreuk. But Voth isn’t a young and cute fanboy crush object, which shows what really drives this – unless the point is actually to distract from more key players who so far have escaped largely unnoticed and unaccountable.
You really are an insufferable bore. Next time you feel the need to type out a long essay to defend your dream spank, drop and do push ups . She was caught out, stop being a pussy. Is it aspergers or are you just that much of a low-t c***?
AnnoyMaker,
Thank you so much for this amazing article!
I feel like I have had a tremendous epiphany after reading your article.
Since February of last year I have experienced many sleepless nights, spent debating with myself whether or not Kristin Kreuk left Nxivm in 2013 or 2015.
Frank has refused to post my 119 posts concerning this important issue.
I believe the 2 years or 730.49 days that Kreuk belonged or did not belong to Nxivm to be of paramount importance!
Keith Raniere once said that an old broken path can not be compared to a new path. I don’t know what that means, but I do know that 2013 and 2015 are different years. Oddly enough both happen to be odd numbers. 2011 and 2017 happen to be prime as well as odd numbers.
Your article actuallys answer the question within the question. I believe your article helps to illuminate the true crux of the debate. I believe the answer to the debate lay within the evidence!
When I read your article I felt like I asked you the time and you told me how to build a clock…
…..I still do not know what time it is but I do know how to build a clock!!!!!
Thank you so much!
niceguy, you’re very welcome 🙂
This is actually a reply I wrote, that Frank posted as an opinion piece – with a few additional points of clarification – which I’m okay with, though I’m not sure the issue is really needs more than one good wrap-up piece, and I think that overall we could use fewer opinion pieces. But I’m sick and tired of the Kreuk controversy, and would like to see it go away, so I thought I’d have a shot at deconstructing some of the claims. I don’t know that some of the diehards will be dissuaded, but from the responses here it seems as if it may have helped settle the issue for some observers.
Time is relative, man – like Chicago sang, does anybody know what time it really is? But I actually work on watches as a hobby, so if you’d like me to explain a fusee or a coaxial escapement, just ask….
Thanks again!!!!
😉
You are “sultan of spank”. That is why you are “sick and tired”.
Your fantasy spank has been thoroughly caught out and you are racking your little brain under your turban to make excuses for her. Something you have been doing for well over a decade.
Truth is Kristin left the program years ago. All sides agree. Shows over.
You had better call mommy for a ride home, buh bye.
Just keep that slurpie soaked wahhhmbulance away from people..y’all remember that Clyde. Lol.
Regardless of when Kristin Crook left, what matters is what she did and what she knew, particularly involving criminal, moral, and ethical issues (real ethics, not Raniere’s “brand” of ethics). Her statement, “I took a course to help with my shyness” is obviously understating her involvement, as she recruited Mack and probably others. Was she involved with money trafficking and/or other crimes? Was she aware of Raniere f*cking and abusing multiple women, did he f*ck her? Was she aware of the lawsuits against outsiders and former NXIVM people, and what did she know? We know Raniere f*cked Christine Marie and told her not to f*ck another man for the rest of her life, she said so on my radio show yesterday.
Good points. I suspect that as with many things, the truth is in the middle – her involvement was understated, but she also wasn’t involved in any crimes, and probably not anything really unsavory either.
Her statement was likely made with the advice of a wise publicist, who knew that it was enough of the truth to satisfy most – and that some would never be satisfied. I doubt she’ll ever have anything more to say, and if she does try to put it in a bit more perspective, it still won’t be enough for those who think she owes her public an excruciatingly detailed explanation.
Sure, it would be interesting to know the details of her involvement – but, for instance, the nearly forgotten Karen Unterreiner probably knows a thousand times as much about the sort of dirty details that are really significant, so if there’s anyone to focus on it’s people like her. Also, key players in the Vancouver center, like Sarah Edmondson and Mark Vicente, are the ones who arguably owe some sort of explanation – to everyone who they got involved and who was affected.
We don’t know whether Kristin Crook committed any crimes. Those who say she definitely did and those who say she definitely didn’t are simply beating their chests and not proving a thing. I’m quite sure the DOJ found lots of crimes they decided not to prosecute and/or leveraged these people to squeal.
What do you expect Mr. Super fan / Super stalker to say?
Careful, you may ruin his spank.
She did Keith.
If that doesn’t harsh his mellow, he needs meds.
I’d agree that we don’t know – though that also falls into the fallacy of proving a negative. But it seems that she was more or less at the periphery of things, not one of the inner circle with a place in Knox Woods, just one of hundreds of low-level coaches and center staff about whom the pretty much the same thing could be said, but most of whom likely didn’t commit any crimes – she’s just been singled out because she is a cute actress with some sort of fan base.
The only things that really stand out in her case, was that she was taken to Necker Island, and involved in GBD. But those were probably just cases of NXIVM seeking to exploit her minor celebrity.
And if GBD is a significant issue, then why aren’t we hearing just as much about Kendra Voth, and anyone else involved?
GO AWAY “sultan”.
You are not right in the head.
what is your radio show??
http://www.buildingfortunesradio.com/scott-johnson-peter-mingils/
When Kreuk left or whether or not she immediately abandoned friends she made in Nx is meaningless.
Her only serious issue is Girls By Design, which she founded and fronted and maybe supervised, so…
Was GBD EFFECTIVELY used by Nx to groom underage girls for the sex cult?
And did Kreuk know “her girl empowerment” group could be used in this way?
However, the fact that exploiting minors for sex is such a serious crime, and the fact the Feds never mentioned GBD in the trail makes me think that GBD never effectively recruited girls into the sex cult.
And “Jane’s” account of Kreuk training girls in BDSM (tee hee) is as credible as Ben’s story about the recruiting party. Now if “Jane” had said Kreuk recruited Stormy Daniels into GBD, then that would be convincing.
“Jane” said GBD was a “feminist approach to BDSM”.
Tabby Chapman, who was a Smallville superfan was recruited into NXIVM and joined Kreuk’s Girls By Design.
If even one girl from GBD joined NXIVM, that is really bad.
Kreuk would of known enough bad shit by 2012. Staying on one year would be bad enough. Still supporting the cult in 2015 is disgusting. She’s in the public eye and she was named in the pedophile articles. She was named in Joe O’Hara’s lawsuit. The Necker Island revelations. All in one month.
Yes, NXIVM is bad (financially and intellectually) but not “really bad” unless involved sexually with KAR or in DOS…so what was Tabby’s experience in Nx. if you know? Did Tabby also describe GBD as BDSM?
Anonymous 8:40 said: “Tabby Chapman, who was a Smallville superfan was recruited into NXIVM [by whom, if you know?] and joined Kreuk’s Girls By Design. If even one girl from GBD joined NXIVM, that is really bad.”
Tabby Chapman was an official NXIVM coach, referred by Allison Mack. She ran the website of Allison Mack and created one for Kristin Kook.
She is also a lesbian and very fat if you want to know.
I didn’t ask if she was a fat lesbian.
I did ask—Did Tabby also describe GBD as BDSM?
True, but we know about Raniere’s lack of personal hygiene, square feet, and small wanger, so why not?
To add to this post: Common sense people lol stop believing everything you read. Some are SO incredibly obsessed with Kristin (thanks to FP). If there was one second long she was in DOS or part of any idea of it, it would have come out on trial. What we know for sure people close to her knew she was trying to leave as soon as she read the media report of him as a pedo. You just can’t leave a cult without a plan and it takes time to formulate an OUT. See Vicente.
Cat Oxenberg said nothing about her etc. NO one in the inner circle did because she was never involved in depth or even thought of for anything sex cult ish.
And the one who said unshaved legs is from a strange fan of Allison Mack and even if that was true which I have doubts on because it was an anon reddit post (!) btw if you are willfully ignorant the pedo liked the vagina shaved not legs (btw mine are right now) lmao.
I hate hollywoodlife https://hollywoodlife.com/2017/11/15/kristin-kreuk-allison-mack-sex-cult-nxivm-smallville/ BUT these are real quotes from a member who was high up and had eventually found out the creep KR was….
“Susan Dones, an ex Nxivm member who once ran the group’s Washington Training center tells HollywoodLife.com EXCLUSIVELY that Allison joined the group after being drawn in by her former Smallville co-star Kristin Kreuk, 34. “Yes Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack were members of Nxivm. Kristin recruited Allison. But Kristin left shortly after I left in 2009. She got out before it became really bizarre and wasn’t involved with anything sexual.” Dones then went on to tell us how Raniere allegedly wooed women within the group into sexual situations, and it disgusted her so much she bailed on Nxivm for good.
“I joined in 2000 and left in 2009 when I found out that Keith Raniere was manipulating women into having sex with him. He wouldn’t approach the women for sex directly. He would send one of the women working for him, a woman named Pat, on his behalf. Pat would say to the chosen woman, ‘Keith wants to spend some one on one time with you.’ Whatever they were doing with their lives, whether it was acting or business or a sport they were good at, they would be told Keith can help you if you spend some one on one time and she could set that up. He would meet them and do his seduction thing,” Dones tells us. HollywoodLife.com has reached out to Kreuk, Mack, Raniere and Nxivm about the allegations and none of the parties has responded to us.”
ALL real, named (Susan, Sarah, etc) and unnamed sources say Kristin left as early as 2012/13. Case closed. Stop making up lies or perpetuating.
If Kristin Kreuk knew this post was online, she probably would of said something different. The guy thanked her for a reason. Not by accident, alongside two others. She obviously did not quit NXIVM at all.
WHEN did Kristin Crook encourage him to take a class? You don’t know, it could have been in 2012-2013.
Please explain why you believe the guy who thanked KK for her encouragement…and NOT believe the three insiders who told Frank, in detail, when KK left?
How about, you don’t know who they are, how well they know Kreuk or if they want to defend her, even if that means lying.
Mark Busse thanking Kreuk May 2015, for her involvement in his NXIVM course contradicts one of these anonymous “sources” claiming Kreuk “left” because of the pedophilia expose which was exposed a year before claiming she left. If she she was anti-NXIVM, that would not of happened.
Also, Kreuk was planning to relaunch Girls By Design as recently as July 2013, confirmed by Kendra Voth herself. Kreuk couldn’t be that busy or anti-NXIVM then…
Then there are the contradictory comments from other anonymous “sources” to the press.
This Mark Busse landed Kreuk right in it, “tee hee!”
Try not to cry too much “sultan”.
Anonymaker, aka Spanky, has a serious case of Chronic Denial. Beetles seem to be prone to it.
The truth is Kristin left the program years ago. The court case has moved on, and will conclude in 9/11/2019 as scheduled.
The author of this article is the king of the Kruek fan club, the one and only Sultan of Six, the super stalker, mad Spanker of the Frank Report . SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. Objectivity? Not quite!
It’s obvious by the Cami / Raniere text exchanges that Keith Wanted young underage girls. The same as the ones beIng looked for on Kristen Kruek’s Girls By Design Web site which was approved by Nancy Salzman and Keith Raniere. The website had contests where young girls would send in a so called “Sexy Seven” video of themselves for prizes and answer personal questions about themselves so no doubt Raniere could pick a winner. This was an underage Virgin farm for Raniere. Or just another coincidence? I don’t think so.
This person is either “SultanOfSix” or just another weird fan.
Kreuk said she left about five years ago. That would mean 2013, not 2012.
She was in New York June 2012 with Allison Mack and Mark Hildreth based on a photograph posted to Instagram by Mack.
She retweeted Sarah Edmondson’s tweet about her “leaving” in 2013, not 2012.
And clearly, based on the Facebook post, Kreuk still supported NXIVM May 2015.
The poster thanked Kreuk, Mark Vicente and Lucas Roberts. Nothing about recruiting, so what were they all thanked for? Lucas Roberts in the comments said he was there. Sarah Edmondson even likes the post.
Kreuk was just filming a tv show in Toronto. She obviously didn’t cut the cord with NXIVM.
All the other “sources” have told the media contradicting things.
No matter what anyone says, evidence shows Kreuk still was physically with NXIVM in 2015.
When she left doesn’t matter to me, unless she committed or concealed crimes while she was still in.
As far as I know she didn’t.
Exactly but even that is not enough. I remember some lunatic troll tweeting tell the FBI to investigate her lol like the FBI are idiots who don’t have many sources and electronic date to verify. When nothing is there, people should accept it. It’s just people wanting it to be true and it is very disturbing. Especially because verifiable sources have come forward and stated KK knew nothing about DOS AND left WAY before. I personally from what I read about her history think she naively got involved and stayed because of her abusive ex and like the other people who left as soon as she realized. From what I read even if she had not left, Raniere went after specific troubled people and KK was too “normal” there was no interest from her she wanted anything more than being helped/helping on self help side thinking it was a legit organization.
——
Dislike hollywoodlife https://hollywoodlife.com/2017/11/15/kristin-kreuk-allison-mack-sex-cult-nxivm-smallville/ BUT these are real quotes from a member who was high up and had eventually found out the creep KR was….
“Susan Dones, an ex Nxivm member who once ran the group’s Washington Training center tells HollywoodLife.com EXCLUSIVELY that Allison joined the group after being drawn in by her former Smallville co-star Kristin Kreuk, 34. “Yes Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack were members of Nxivm. Kristin recruited Allison. But Kristin left shortly after I left in 2009. She got out before it became really bizarre and wasn’t involved with anything sexual.” Dones then went on to tell us how Raniere allegedly wooed women within the group into sexual situations, and it disgusted her so much she bailed on Nxivm for good.
“I joined in 2000 and left in 2009 when I found out that Keith Raniere was manipulating women into having sex with him. He wouldn’t approach the women for sex directly. He would send one of the women working for him, a woman named Pat, on his behalf. Pat would say to the chosen woman, ‘Keith wants to spend some one on one time with you.’ Whatever they were doing with their lives, whether it was acting or business or a sport they were good at, they would be told Keith can help you if you spend some one on one time and she could set that up. He would meet them and do his seduction thing,” Dones tells us. HollywoodLife.com has reached out to Kreuk, Mack, Raniere and Nxivm about the allegations and none of the parties has responded to us.”
ALL real, named (Susan, Sarah, etc) and unnamed sources say Kristin left as early as 2012/13. Case closed. Stop making up lies or perpetuating.
You are a very strange creature “Jen”.
A very emotionally unstable creature.