The new year – 2015 – commenced with a spate of texts between Cami and Keith Raniere on a wide range of [abusive] topics.
This is Part 4 of the Keith and Cami Texts.
Part 1: Keith and Cami Texts: The Perverted Mind of a Monster
Part 3: Keith and Cami Texts: Incredibly Cruel KEITH: Raniere
At the time of these texts, Keith was having sex with a dozen or more women, and seeing Cami when he had some spare time. She was, of course, mandated to be with no other man.
He is known to have had sex with her when she was 15 and he was 45 [It may have even been earlier.] This was statutory rape in New York where the age of consent is 17.
In Keith’s harem in 2015 were actresses Allison Mack, Nicki Clyne, and Kristanna Loken – plus Mariana [Cami’s sister], Pam Cafritz, Dawn Morrison, Kathy Russell, Danielle Roberts, Dani Padilla, Ivy Nevares, Clare Bronfman, Loreta Garza, Monica Duran, and a number of other women of various ages.
Keith was living with Cafritz and Mariana ménage a trois. They all slept in the same bed, when Keith was home. Barbara Jeske had died. Kristin Keeffe had escaped with their son. Lauren Salzman had been cut off from having sex with Keith until she could cure some of her disintegrations and could have a baby with him [She never did].
Keith had nicknamed Cami – “Virgin Camila” – when she was 15 [possibly younger]. He also took nude photographs of her when she was 15 [November 2005]. He chose to save them on a hard drive until they were found by the FBI 12-plus years later when they searched his condo at 8 Hale Drive. These nude photos of the child were arguably the single most important piece of evidence the FBI found in their search – and they will likely be used to try Keith on possession of child pornography charges in the NDNY.
Even if Keith could not see Cami for weeks or months, she was expected to wait for him, until he found time [in between his other women] to be with her.
She had ruined his plans for her, he said, because of her affair with Robbie. Keith seemed to have gone out of his mind with rage and grief. He was deeply hurt, he said, by her affair with Robbie.
He was forced, he said, to change all his plans since she was no longer a virgin to him. Her punishment or penance was for her to find her successor, another virgin he could train to be what she could have been.
Cami was also tasked with finding a sex slave, who did not have to be a virgin, for threesomes with him and Cami [and likely for him alone as well].
Somewhere along the line, Cami slipped up again. After her affair with Robbie, she had an encounter with Robbie’s stepfather, Jim Del Negro, a longtime Nxivm follower. Jim lives with Robbie’s mother, Nxivm leader [green sash] Esther Chiappone Carlson. What Cami and Jim did together and where it happened is unclear. Keith required her to write Jim an email suggesting she felt forced or pressured, despite the fact that their brief liaison was apparently mutually consensual.
At this point in her life, Cami lives in a state of guilt, not unlike her older sister Dani did when she was Cami’s age. In around 2006, Dani had an affair with Ben Myers and was required to heal that ethical breach. Dani did not ever heal it to Keith’s satisfaction and she was confined, alone, in a room for nearly two years at Cami’s family home in Clifton Park.
As these texts begin, Keith is 54 and Cami is 24. She is originally from Mexico. She has no friends outside the Nxivm community he leads. She is living in virtual hiding at a condo at 120 Victory Way in Knox Woods where he visits occasionally. She spends most of her nights alone.
While DOS has not yet officially started – that is several months away – Keith seems to be working out some of his future plans for it through Cami. For example, he is using the word “slave” with her, both in the sense that Cami is his slave, and also tasking Cami with finding slaves for Keith and her to enjoy.
Here is our Vanguard at his noble best.
2015
Keith begins the year by demanding Cami declare her desire to have his baby. They never would have a baby. Ironically Keith did sire a baby with her sister, Mariana. The male child Kemar was born in August 2017.]
January 8th, 2:22 a.m.
KEITH: … If you want my baby, I want you to say it explicitly.
CAMI: I understand. I would — will.
KEITH: If you feel that way this moment, it would be good to say it.
CAMI: I understand.
KEITH: I thought you did at this moment. I’m sorry…. This could have been big for us. Goodnight. [He is angry]
CAMI: What do you mean?
KEITH: No more to be said. You needed to be strong and true.
CAMI: I feel bad. What did I do? Did I say something wrong? What just happened?
KEITH: Deep inside, you should absolutely want my baby. If not, there is something I can’t talk about.
CAMI: Oh…
KEITH: If you either don’t know that, think differently, or don’t have the conscience to say it, you are not where I had hoped [you’d be]. Which is it?
CAMI: I’m close, love.
KEITH: Which is it?
CAMI: I’m not understanding. I’m missing something important here. I ‘either don’t know,’ what? ‘Think differently’ about what?
KEITH: Wanting my baby enough now to text it.
CAMI: I do want it.
KEITH: Then text it explicitly. I don’t understand why you avoided that.
CAMI: Because it is not that simple.
KEITH: Actually it is, and by rights should be. It’s that you think it’s not that scares me about [your] conscience.
CAMI: Don’t. I do want your baby.
KEITH: Then all you needed to do was text that in the first place. Why didn’t you?
CAMI: I don’t know.
KEITH: That’s what really scares me. You need to know why, apologize for not [texting it], because that’s what you want and never fall victim to that process again. You insult our baby by not.
CAMI: I understand. I think of the circumstances that that baby would be brought into and that is why I am hesitant.
KEITH: You need to be more causative. You caused these circumstances. You need to uncause them.
CAMI: I understand.
KEITH: So do from now on and text things like: ‘I want your baby!’ And mean them because it will help you cause it, instead of waiting.
CAMI: Okay.
KEITH: Starting now.
CAMI: Okay. I want your baby.
January 11th, 9:46 p.m
[Keith wants to know if Cami might, by virtue of her schedule of activities, run into Robbie, the young man she had an interlude with before. He would consistently ask Cami to provide him her schedule and often she would provide it. And then he would ask repeatedly, over and over again for her to continue to provide the same schedule.]
KEITH: Still I have to ask again. R [Robbie’s] schedule? Is it that you don’t respect my questions?
CAMI: Tomorrow I busy, 8 to 12:00. What about R? I guess I don’t get your question.
KEITH: Interactions. Any?
CAMI: No.
KEITH: I wish you said things like ‘no, honey. I love you.’ I wish you cared enough. So whenever there was a chance you might run into him [Robbie], you would eagerly tell me and report everything that happened without my having to ask. That would be more loving and caring about the situation and me.
CAMI: Yes.
KEITH: [Had you written] ‘Yes, honey, I love you and we’ll make it right.’ That would have given me more hope.
January 14th, 2:18 a.m.
[Keith and Cami are discussing potential women to have sex with at 2 a.m. Cami is taking an intensive and has to be up early in the morning.]
KEITH: Probably not a virgin but okay as a slave?
CAMI: I think she’s hot, but not appealing. Huh.
KEITH: Yeah, I don’t find her appealing but interesting as a slave.
CAMI: Do you still want to sleep?
KEITH: Only if you do.
CAMI: I can go for a slave, really?
KEITH: What do you mean? Of course.
CAMI: Any preferences in looks? What do you want in a slave?
KEITH: Ideally, what would you want? What would you like?
CAMI: I like them younger than me, but don’t mind if she’s older, brunette or blonde, not talk [tall] or not to [too tall] talk, innocent looking, hee hee hee.
KEITH: Virgin?
CAMI: For me? No. For you, yes. Oh, that was tall, not talk.
KEITH: Can have more than one [slave]. But if you found a successor [a virgin], we could be together forever.
CAMI: Okay.
KEITH: I like shorter than me. Younger than you is fine. Just so they have character which they would have to prove through obedience.
CAMI: Got it.
KEITH: And?
CAMI: Hmm. Do you mean obedience as in slave-type obedience?
KEITH: Yes, but in other ways, too. Obedience is good, don’t you think? Wink. Wink.
CAMI: Not in a slave-type. I’m not into that. But yes. I don’t like the whole dominatrix thing.
KEITH: Yes, but if you now obeyed me absolutely, we would be better off. Obedience for her in the form of tests of loyalty. Wink. Wink.
CAMI: That’s why I said but yes, I am agreeing with you FYI.
KEITH: So when will you locate a first candidate we can consider?
CAMI: In the next few days. I’ll look locally but not within the community unless you want me to.
KEITH: I agree. It would have to be a rare circumstance to find someone within this community. How will you look outside?
CAMI: I don’t know yet. We’ll figure it out.
KEITH: You might be able to get some help unbeknownst to the giver of the help by people in the community. Some of them would bring you to people in Mexico though so more difficult.
CAMI: ? Why Mexico?
KEITH: Some of the women who might aid you are from there or Texas.
CAMI: I’m not following. I am so sorry. Are we still talking about a girl?
KEITH: Yes.
CAMI: Okay.
KEITH: Some of our community members have non-community friends of the proper age, etc. Mostly in Mexico, I think.
[He may be referring to Rosa Laura Junco, from Mexico and Texas. Rosa Laura has a teenage daughter, and there are a number of teen girls in the LeBaron family in Chihuahua, Mexico, who ultimately come up to Clifton Park to take a special Nxivm program.]
CAMI: I’m going to try to sleep again. Okay. Gotcha.
6:10 p.m.
[Cami is attending a Nxivm intensive. She is also going on Tind-r to find women for threesomes. Keith is annoyed Cami is not texting him frequently enough.]
KEITH: I wish you would write. I’ve gone back and forth [in texts] to several women in the intensive on quite extensive matters and I have not gotten a word from you. Am I really that unimportant?
CAMI: No, love. I have a shitty phone. I can only charge a little bit at a time. It has been intense emotionally. I’m a little overwhelmed. How are you? Do you miss me? I have been thinking of getting a girl.
KEITH: Why didn’t you text during lunch?
CAMI: I am staff [she is working as a staff member in the intensive] but honestly I’ve been a little out of it. I feel overwhelmed.
KEITH: Why?
CAMI: I am sorry, love. Because of the first intake sheet. Your choice of questions.
[Keith asks about a certain girl for a threesome.]
KEITH: Is she available?
CAMI: I can find out.
KEITH: Fits the profile, do you?
CAMI: She might be. Then I have to ask it she minds my older boyfriend [Keith].
KEITH: One step at a time.
[He speaks of another woman.]
KEITH: The first is the best for me. She also looks energetically best.. Why upset by the question on the intake form? What part upsets you? What are their names? My assumption is they are not ESPians, Tindr-derived or the like.
CAMI: Right, not ESPians.
[Later on – quite early in the morning, Keith corrects Cami’s use of language when she said she would ask a certain woman if she would be OK having sex with her and her “older boyfriend.”]
January 15th. 4:12 a.m.
KEITH: By the way, I suspect I’m a pretty sellable guy beyond being just an older boyfriend. Maybe a more marketing sensitive approach may be useful.
January 25th, 2:00 p.m.
KEITH: Why did it plummet?
CAMI: My fear and out-of-causeness.
KEITH: Fear and out-of-causeness about what specifically? Why would that make it drop?
CAMI: I felt unsafe and that fed into not wanting to. So then I felt more unsafe and then, etc.
KEITH: When did this start?
CAMI: Thanksgiving.
KEITH: Why then?
CAMI: The first time I felt conditioned by you.
KEITH: Conditioned how?
CAMI: Like I wanted to leave. I FELT blackmailed.
January 27th, 9:27 p.m.
[Keith seems to have demanded sex without much or any notice. Cami did not react precisely as he desired.]
KEITH: Do I disgust you physically?
CAMI: No, my lovey. You are delicious.
KEITH: Oh, what did the emoticon mean?
CAMI: It was too abrupt but I am not disgusted by you.
KEITH: Ideally nothing could ever be too abrupt between authentic lovers. Otherwise, it can never be safe or genuine. I wish you could figure out how I could ever be too abrupt for you. Maybe that reaction can trace to something truthful, an area of pride perhaps. You can never be too abrupt with me unless you act out of fear and not love. I guess, in thinking about it, I am very sad anything could be too abrupt.
CAMI: It feels violent. It feels like I am a thing and that scares me. I will look at it more.
February 1st, 2:24 p.m.
[Keith wants her to write a letter to Jim to state that the voluntary and brief encounter they had was disgusting to her and that she felt forced. Cami had an affair with Jim after Robbie. Jim teaches Nxivm intensives.]
CAMI: I didn’t say I was going to write a letter to Jim. I want to talk to him.
KEITH: Our future. If you don’t convince me, I will leave. As of right now, I will get over the next months exactly what I got over the last months. After my waiting for you, hurting myself to keep some door open, you repay me with more betrayal and dishonesty on top. I don’t want this anymore. I’m giving you a chance to change and prove it. Talking to him is probably the inferior option. You have to tape it. Rehearse it. Guarantee exactly what you will say and how you will say it and say no more. I don’t trust you. A letter is more trustworthy.
CAMI: A letter is cold.
KEITH: Look what happened when I trusted you to end things with R [Robbie] in one day. Yes, a letter is colder, but considering what you did, you need to be cold. You have already damaged everything with him and Esther [Jim’s longtime girlfriend is Esther who is also Robbie’s mother].
CAMI: What? How?
7:46 p.m.
[In the early evening, Keith now wants a nude picture from Cami.]
KEITH: The picture, do I get your face in it too… ?
CAMI: Yes. When I look better. Right now I am super-puffy and unattractive.
KEITH: But it’s for me. Make me the very best one you can and one you would never send to anyone else ever.
CAMI: I look yucky, hon. Can I send you one tomorrow?
KEITH: Then make it a special pussy shot. Invite me like you would invite nobody else. Yes, on tomorrow also.
CAMI: Okay. I will make it a special one.
KEITH: Make yourself look your greatest.
CAMI: Will do, honey.
KEITH: Waiting with great expectations.
CAMI: Oh, boy, no pressure.
7:55 p.m.
KEITH: … Show me now.
CAMI: Still no face but see how she’s [her vagina’s] open saying ‘feed me.’ Are you by yourself?
KEITH: Sort of. Nancy is near and in public waiting at gate.
CAMI: Guard these pics, okay?
KEITH: Yes, of course. You have copies? You know I guard the other pictures, right?
[He did not guard them too well. The FBI found some of them and charged him for possessing pictures of Cami when she was 15.]
CAMI: I have copies. And original.
KEITH: … You know I have the others, yes?
CAMI: From way back when?
KEITH: I wanted the original forever. I thought it was truly mine. Yes, from way back.
CAMI: Oh, my honey, I am so sorry.
KEITH: Can you get me another and will you give me what is left forever?
CAMI: Phone froze. Give me a sec. Not working.
February 5th, 10:03 p.m.
[Keith is back to the email to Jim, demanding Cami finish it and send it.]
KEITH: What is the absolute deadline then?? Why are you so unresponsive? What happened again to you?
CAMI: Hmm, I’ve been next to my phone. I did not hear your messages drop. I am so sorry.
KEITH: Deadline? Deadline?
CAMI: I don’t know. I wanted to do it tomorrow.
February 6th, 11:08 a.m.
KEITH: If you have a choice of having sex with Jim or me, who would you choose? It still has the same problem. … I am so sad you didn’t write it. Please answer my question. Just send the second draft that contains all necessary therapeutic elements. Please answer my question. It is insulting when you wait.
***
[Here is the letter Cami sends to Keith to approve to send to Jim regarding sexual contact that the two of them had. Keith provides edits. It is unclear when, or if, she ever sent the email to Jim.]
Hi Jim.
I was uncomfortable with some of the interactions during the intensive and the vibe that I’m getting from you. I just want to clarify a few things. I left a lot of things unsaid that should have been said. I should have written this long ago but seeing you in the training made me realize how I clearly feel about you and what I did. I will no longer let it go unsaid. Last year there were many times I failed to do what was right with you. I made many bad decisions and I let my fears and my insecurities cloud my judgment. I feel bad that I let it go as far as it did and I didn’t stop it much sooner. I feel embarrassed now every time I look at you because I felt forced to let you touch me… I felt forced to take off the bra so you wouldn’t hurt yourself. I took off the bra because I felt I had no choice, not because I actually wanted you to touch me. Every moment felt like an out-of-body moment, car crash, disaster and I couldn’t stop. Being liked was a big factor in my decisions and I just don’t — when I took it all the way to that moment. I liked that you liked me. It felt good, but I did not want to be sexual with you. I hope from now we can be cordial if we do cross paths but I will choose to refrain from interacting with you unless absolutely needed.”
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
Wow. These are so unbelievably PATHETIC. And from our Vanguard??? Who woulda thunk it?
“wanna have sex with me and my creepy, sissy, pitifully jealous, older boyfriend? errrr, sorry, scratch that. Wanna have sex with me, and my sprinting champion-math wiz-child judo champion-piano playing-volleyball loving-cult founding-old azzz boyfriend? His STDs aren’t flaring! Pretty please?”
Did Keith ever have a woman in his life that didn’t cheat on him multiple times? And guess what Keithy, you think your ladies shared their affairs with you? LOL You fairy.
[…] Part 4: Keith and Cami Texts: Finding a Virgin, and Slaves for Threesomes […]
[…] How does one even begin to put these communications within the broad and crucial context that Raniere conditioned Cami for nearly a decade? Here she was 24 during these latest quoted excerpts. […]
KAR=Whiny insecure bore.
How ever did he lead a cult?
Excellent question!
FWB with threesomes on Fwbdr, one popular fwb dating and NSA casual hook up community.
Who says romance is dead?
Figured it out….duh
All the other women had enjoyed sex with other men prior to him. They could lie and say he was the best. He liked that – But questioned it deep down.
Cami had only ever had him. Then once she had something else to compare, his self consciousness got the best of him.
And she couldn’t lie to him. Or forget her encounters as they were very recent. Or imagine no one made her feel something other than vanguard, because they did.
This pissed him off.
“Gotta have another virgin to worship me ASAP”
Until then, he set himself on torturing cami 🙁
Aye aye Captain. Nailed it.
Thanks for taking the effort to publish this series of exchanges between Raniere and Cami. How does one even begin to put these communications within the broad and crucial context that Raniere conditioned Cami for nearly a decade? Here she was 24 during these quoted excerpts.
Cami had been in his grip for 9 years already, since he started sex with her when she was 15. Provably. Add to it that she is one of three sisters, and their kool aid drinking parents allowed each one to be victimized by Raniere. For years. A real life soap opera horror movie sinking down right next to snuff film level. These parents paid a lot of money for their daughters to be treated this way, too. The abortions, vagina poses, throw in a 2 year captivity for one daughter, getting branded, participating in various crimes – well you know, that stuff is expensive.
People thinking they’re buying self-help and instead getting sucked into the vortex of blood, guts, extortion, starvation, slavery, sexual abuse. And they were instructed to smile and be happy while falling apart on the inside. Enjoy it and get more recruits with your contagious enthusiasm.
Multiply this by the numerous women who individually had the same sort of relationshit with Raniere. Raniere was the fucking Ford Pinto of relationshit. Clare has no taste at all. Nancy is like the human embodiment of a grinning hyena. In her sixties, yet. Oy veh to the Executive Success.
You’ve offered a banquet for analysis here. To quote Frank Zappa, Wowie-Zowie. Raniere is a guy who tells on himself everytime he opens his mouth. It is obvious that he has no concept of how transparent he really is.
You can begin to envision the roots of his obsessions from how, specifically, he has chosen to manipulate others, word by word. You begin to see his craven and diseased neediness for what it is, as well as how he has applied his systematic overlay of craftiness to hide his real crap and to use it to get what he wanted.
He himself reveals what he has had to have for himself. It is like listening to a sex addict who also happens to be addicted to gambling, because Raniere was compelled to keep overplaying his hand. You read his composition here, like being able to read music.
You read it note by note and then can hear the whole stack of pages at once. You really get to read Raniere’s inner cacaphony.
It look as though the time when he might have been cured (to some extent) had passed before he was even out of elementary school. In other words, Raniere’s primal, gaping personal fixations preceded the development of his abstract intellect. And so he was able to develop his intellect while he was already askew inside, say from about the age of eight or maybe seven. He went down the dark road early. Speculatively.
This is entirely different from the more commonly understood late adolescent forms of breakdown, regardless of their various pathologies. One of the key differences is that Raniere was able to function out of his own sociopathy. In a way, he built it himself. He could control it to some extent because, abstractly, it’s been all that he has ever known. Strangely enough Ted Bundy operated similarly, by the way. He had some command of and used a huge mental and interpersonal facade to get what he wanted. He just moved a lot faster, having a different end in mind.
This latest realease of text messages is as disturbing as the last. Raniere is clearly noe a sexual predator incase anyone had any doubts.
I have one odd observation and question…..
…….I wonder if Keith Raniere was more bothered by Dani cheating on him because Keith considered more sexually attractive than Ben Myers.
Dani’s transgression hit a serious nerve where Cami was more easily forgiven.
Cami cheated with Jim and Robbi.
Why did Keith not get as outraged?
Typos galore!
Raniere failed with Dani, so he was trying a different approach with Cami.
Dani at points capitulated.
Yeah niceguy. That’s a good point. I think because Dani didn’t play into his crap as much as Cami. She stuck up for herself just that much more.
Thanks the reply.
I hope Cami is getting some REAL therapeutic counsel during all of this exposure. I’m sure there is no way for us to know, but having your embarrassing personal interactions exposed to the public is another form of trauma. She has been the golden key to conviction of the lil’ general. I pray she is not further punished inside the Nexkid kingdom.
Very very good point. I can’t imagine what she feels like right now. Exposed? Embarrassed? Angry? Vindicated by the support? Probably all of the above. Again – the family dinner table talk has to be pretty challenging. You’ve got Mariana likely still holding on, Dani who has moved on, Cami who is still confused, Adrian who is likely vacillating between anger and guilt (same with mother and father) – and then there is unknown scary shizz happening in their community.
Speaking of which – from a racketeering perspective, how many of the “first line slaves” were at the organization’s mercy to stay in the country? Nancy, Lauren, Allison were citizens. Dani, Dani P, Cami, Mariana, Nicki, Rosa, Lola – etc. I don’t bring it up as any point related to current immigration issues. More of a overall coercion tool that was used to keep the women in line at the time. KR’s repeated “move out” to Dani when she wouldn’t say exactly what he wanted sent me down this rabbit hole
Agree with @Paul – what a whiny, insecure, pathetic, desperate man that needs constant reassurance. Yeah, I see he’s trying to manipulate and control her but it’s so clearly to make himself feel like a better man. The more lovable man. He’s this weird contradiction of arrogance and insecurity. Or maybe the lies, arrogance and psychopath behavior is a manifestation of his deep sense of worthlessness? His whole desire to achieve a hyper-rational “fully integrated” state of being is rooted in his fear of rejection, abandonment and his extreme sense of low self worth.
I mean, no one likes to be rejected or abandoned but we take it on chin and then soldier on. And we certainly don’t create a sex cult based on a contrary and unsafe system of beliefs – for the sole purpose of not ever getting dumped by a woman again. He had all he could handle w/Toni.
A weak and sad, sad little man.
More evidence this clown is time stuck in juvenile delinquency.
And this is the most intelligent man in the world? Texting nonstop idiotic nonsense with a teenager and behaving like 13 year old himself? For fck sake!
Its just amazing how weak and insecure he is.
YES!! At the end of the day, your comment sums it up nicely. Ironically, and yet tragically for his victims, he sought out the same weakness and insecurities in others. “Poison Bottles….poison bottles”. Keith, finally, is going to get a dose of his own medicine. And, I hope it’s well documented.
Looking forward to the next installment of Keith’s “This Is Your Life” at MDC.
Make it stop! These texts are so awful and pathetic!
Stop enough already. We don’t need to read anymore texts between these two. It’s overkill. No one is interested. We get it Keith is bad.
I’m rather enjoying it. Hopefully Raniere’s fellow inmates are learning about it, too.
Yes. Exactly.
But if these reading these texts encourage any remaining DOS members to leave, they will have served their purpose.
Right Pyriel. Also the words written by KAR himself give a bird’s eye view of his manipulative and abusive techniques. The texts are highly unpleasant, but educational.
It appears Cami was learning how to give Raniere some of his own mind-f*ck medicine.
Yeah, she was catching on, nailing him on his bullshit, and he would try to turn it back around on her. Glad she finally saw through it and got out.
What a prick. I oftentimes found myself wondering how KAR occupied himself all day, since others were teaching his courses (it could not all be sex). Now I know. Bullying girls and stamping his feet like a 13 year old!
It seems to me he absolutely, unequivocally believes he’s entitled to all kinds of special treatment and complete obedience. Entitlement: One of the traits of a psychopath.
Somebody please do an analysis of this guy.
We don’t need to spend more taxpayer dollars on an analysis, just toss him in a cell and throw away the key.
As more information becomes known, I hope he gets put under a microscope. Yah, it seems to me that he did think and believe he was entitled. Just think about how much more perverted he would have become within another 5 years if left unchecked.
GSC, I can’t even bear to think about that. I think that ultimately murders would have been committed. After all, the more untouchable he felt, the more he escalated.
I think that the pre-sentencing report in a case like this may include a psych eval. But if so, I’m not sure how much information about it would be made public or revealed in court.
You’re exactly right. The HIPAA privacy act would prevent the pubic sharing of his psych evaluation, but then again I’d still be curious what it says
With so many problems regarding Cami’s phone, KAR the self proclaimed genius never thought of the solution to buy her a new one?
Pyriel,
Your not being fair to Keith.
Keith had no money.
Vanguard after all was a renunciate.
It may be true (the phone thing) But I also think she might’ve also used that as an excuse. It seemed like she was getting annoyed and a little weary of his insecurities and lameness. Not to mention she often had no clue what he was talking about.
Keith is going to get OWNED in prison if any of the inmates read this. How HORRIBLE.
Sounds like vanguard let other men in, to be able to take their money but wanted all the ass for himself. He took care of Robbie with the lady’s daughter but she went ob to another(Jim).. he wouldn’t be able to talk shit to any of them and still get that dough. Like he wanted to act like he was the “one” around other dudes but didn’t want the young ones to like the men. He’s a clown and now a pinstriped one.
Yes, I am watching the WACO series at the moment and it so far (in the film at least) is much the same as was Warren Jeffs in the FLDS who when his father died leaving countless lives including young ones he told all the men to keep off his father’s wives