Guest View by N C Girl
To the NXIVM remainers, this is what control and abuse looks like.
Cami’s bulimia “hurt” Keith? Bullshit.
He was just grossed out by her puking, but he wanted her to starve herself to enhance her attractiveness to him. Keith is a controlling, abusive, selfish misogynist. Period.
There is no mission to save the world, only word salad. Old, stale, recycled, stolen word salad at that. (Read up on Scientology, the verbiage is similar, if not identical. The “tech” is underpinned with a hefty dose of Atlas Shrugged.).
A lot of Nxivm tech is straight off the self-help shelf at your local library or bookstore. Keith just got there first, packaged it, and sold it to wealthy people who wanted to be spoon-fed rather than do the work themselves. Similar experiences can be found in other large-group awareness training [LGATs]. I just don’t think they were founded as a basis for serving a creepy sex pest’s needs.
Keith wanted Cami to abuse and humiliate Robbie, Esther’s son. He did it to control who had access to the women he wanted, and he wanted to be the only one with access.
Is it possible that some of the major fixes attributed to Keith – like the “curing” of Tourette’s – are more likely attributed to time and spontaneous resolution? Science seems to suggest that in some cases of childhood-onset Tourette’s, the problem may resolve on its own.
https://tourette.org/about-tourette/overview/what-is-tourette/#1461071540102-3476eee2-5ae4
Stop trying to justify pedophilia because Keith is a pedophile. Do you all ever wonder why the DOS women were so thin? Maybe so they would look like prepubescent girls? Keith knew what he was doing. He had a type. His type was underage.
Cami was not the prototype but she was certainly an ideal. If Keith had sex with Cami when she was 15, he committed statutory rape (in NY the age of consent is 17). Furthermore, from the standpoint of anatomy and physiology, the reasoning and judgment centers of the brain do not fully mature until around 26 years of age. Not only did he commit a crime, he took advantage of Cami.
Stop spewing this “age is in the mind” crap. It might be true for an 80-year-old marathoner who meditates every day, but using that crap to justify a pedophile’s actions is utter garbage.
There is no justification for coercion and enslavement and what happened to Dani, who was isolated for two years. None. Don’t even try to justify collecting collateral designed to hurt, humiliate and destroy a person’s reputation, their family, career and their life. There is no justification for that. It’s blackmail.
Clare Bronfman spent a hell of a lot of money terrorizing the “enemies” of NXIVM via litigation. She is no one’s friend. Keith weaponized her and her money. He turned her against her own father. Her last visit to her dying father was, according to Mark Vicente, cruel and shocking. I would hope that those she hounded with her lawsuits return the favor and keep her tied up in the courts for a long time, and drain her trust fund dry.
According to Rick Ross and other cult experts, many people who leave cults just move on with their lives.
NEX Remainers, here’s your chance. Walk away. Start your lives over, somewhere else. Reconnect with your loved ones that you left behind to run with Keith and the gang. You can become best versions of yourselves, but you don’t need to have some greasy haired, smelly, middle-aged sex fiend with erectile dysfunction telling you how to do it.
Stay away from the DOS loyalists: Nicki, Dr. Danielle, Princess Buttplug (Dani Padilla) and the rest.
They will pull you back in, drown you in word salad, wake you at 3 am for readiness drills, and lead you down a path that is not at all successful.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
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NCGirl hopefully someone will take your advice.
If this remaining cult detritus have all cleared the Porter test – why would they leave/stop being part of something they are unable to ethically assess? If they are genuinely psychopathic, no amount of appeal to better nature, would suffice, as this Nx cult way of being suits their purpose perfectly?
NCGirl said “Stop trying to justify pedophilia because Keith is a pedophile. Do you all ever wonder why the DOS women were so thin? Maybe so they would look like prepubescent girls? Keith new what he was doing. He had a type. His type was underage.”
I can’t dispute this might have been the case, but I can’t say I’ve found conclusive evidence that Keith wanted the women thin because it reminded him of prepubescent girls. And NCGirl did say “maybe”.
One reason for this is that he wanted the women not to groom themselves in the nether regions. Bluntly, he wanted the women to be very hairy down there. Wouldn’t it be more in keeping with the “prepubescent girl” look to have them trim or shave? even hairless?
At this point, I think the thinness of the women to be less about a certain look and to be more about his controlling personality.
Overall, I would say NCGirl raises some good points.
Yes, I don’t think he is a classic paedophile at all. He just likes slim women (many men do), unshaven women (very rare for a paedophile) and age 15 when he was that old is dreadful but lawfully in many countries – even the UK is age 16 which is not that much older. I am not justifying his actions against a 15 year old but he doesn’t seem to me to like sex with children particularly.
jane take your pedo justifiying shit and peddle it somewhere else
12 is 12 15 is 15 not 16 and certainly not the fuck legal in nys
and if you think you come across as NOT JUSTIFYING sex with children well you ARE
{there is no rationalization for corrupting innocence} and throwing shade for pedos is not a good look
I think he was after a ‘concentration camp’ aesthetic.
Have you considered that Raniere might be a government agent performing a psyop?
“Have you considered that Raniere might be a government agent performing a psyop?”
If Raniere is a government agent his psyop has gone on for far too long.
It might explain the opposition of law enforcement and the justice department reticence to investigate. Maybe they were told to stand trial down for that reason. It took multiple newspaper articles (ultimately the NYT article) and journalists exposuring NXIVM for years to get any kind of official investigation.
Judy, the average cop tries to avoid prying into people’s sex lives.
And as long as NXIVM looked like consenting adults just having fun, the cops will have a hand’s off attitude.
The problem with the Albany area cops is that they seemed to take a personal animus against anyone who claimed that NXIVM was violating the law.
So NXIVM insiders who complained ended up being targets of investigations and even prosecutions.
NXIVM insiders like Joe O’Hara and gadflies ended up being prosecuted.
At some point that sounds less like police inertia and more like police corruption.
And the disturbing aspect of NXIVM is that not only the police but also the prosecutors and courts seem to have been compromised.
Danielle would ride up on a bike whenever he went to the condo. This time she was a little late and the neighbor from upstairs started to give them an earful. They’re having sex parties in there, the neighbor told them. http://tinyurl.com/yxggjew8 #NXIVM
Wow!
That’s a great story.
Thank you for sharing.
I hope Knox Woods can return to normal now.
Thank you!
I looked back at some older stories and it appears a Robbie who was involved in NXIVM was accused of sexual molestation of young girls. This Robbie was the son of Esther Chiappone. Is this the same Robbie? Was this why he was set up by Keith?
Did this really happen? Did Robbie learn this behavior from Keith? Why were charges never filed?
Same Robbie. may have been set up by Keith, checking into it.
Esther chiappone must be really f*cked up. All these mothers who have sacrificed children to KAR – are they psychopathic? Did they pass the Porter test?
Steve Coffey has a rant about Agnifilo and the Jury.
https://m.timesunion.com/news/article/Law-Beat-Coffey-knocks-Raniere-s-attorney-and-14062122.php
Great post, NC Girl! I may have said this before but the whole “You’re hurting me more than you,” male domination trip is a classic pick-up trick for polygamists and pedophiles from India. I heard it a lot while Gina and I toured India and I’ve even heard it used — on me, without success, of course — in LA Indian Grocery Markets.
I think it’s a way to appeal to many females’ natural mother instincts to protect someone who’s “hurting” and to own or possess and control that sympathetic female who falls for this line. For example, I’m looking for a certain spice at a market sipping a Diet Coke and an Indian dude walks up and says something like, You should not drink that, it is not natural. You hurt ME if you drink that one.” In some cases it’s just a horny guy throwing out a line to show he “cares” and would like to add you to his harem at least for awhile. But in the case of Ted Bundy and Keith Raniere…
My brother-in-law’s family is from India and he’s never heard such a thing at all. Not once. Indian guys are notably reserved, especially those who are immigrants on an H-1 visa. What circles are you hanging around?
What !?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48783253
Yes, the press has covered India’s rape culture in this part of the world. Secret is out.
Hmm. Thank you, Anon. I’ve wondered about that — if it was a general thing experienced among all youngish (Gina and I and her friend, Kelly, were there in ‘02) American tourists in India, or if it was just us. And the market in Santa Monica incident happened late last Spring 2018 accompanied by a lot of other weirdness going on about then. Not the first of its kind in my life as a hunted NX “suppressive” ever since the great NX computer confiscation caper of 2010 – 2013 at least.
Maybe it’s more like what’s been circling or what circles have been hanging around me not Vice-Versa, I can well assure you.
Kinda like how sharks (or barracudas) start to circle when they smell blood (or Bronfman booty) in the water.
I do, however, know one very cute Indian Doctor who had a bit of a harem going as a bachelor — not reserved at all — but to your point he never said anything like that to me or any of the ladies I knew he tried chatting up. Hmm. He’s now a devoted father and replete gentleman, btw.
: )
I seriously doubt that any Indian guy tried to pick you up while sipping a Diet Coke.
You’re just not a spring chicken anymore. Even Emi wouldn’t bed you now. Try cruising the local retirement home for men. 🙂
Well said, NC Girl!
They literally don’t care that they are doing the abuse or getting abused. They leave when it is impossible to continue.
Above all else, Raniere is a conman. He’s always been a conman.
He has no talents or abilities outside of that one thing.
He understands how pyramid schemes work, but hasn’t even been very successful at that.
For the time he and his minions invested in NXIVM, the results are very poor, never rising above about 200 members at its peak.
It never became a mass movement.
Now its just a few dozen confused people, unsure of what to do.
I disagree. people who say someone doesn’t have any talents and labels people are DUMB
Anyone who was a part of NXIVM for a long time should seek a therapist and get deprogrammed. Even those who are no longer in it and think they are free from its grasp, for anything members may have acquired via EMs or the like, is most likely tainted with impure motivations, especially if you are a woman and VanFraud showed a potential interest in you. In other words, any idea, notion, principle, belief, etc., in your mind that became part of your way of thinking while you were in NXIVM was not something you came to on your own by the way of your own intellect, but was slowly molded into you where you quite possibly accepted it due to subconscious, emotional triggers, in the context of an environment that was conducive to the best interest of NXIVM, Raniere, et al, and not your own.
Since you mention it, Anon, does anyone know exactly when the “emotional triggers” phraseology began with NX? It’s a method acting term originally, I believe. But I used it in a published Albany TU interview in 2012 to describe Gina’s state of mind — making the anology between her have pulled the trigger (no forensics were done but I assumed at the time it was she) and emotional triggers that I believe were preset long ago by KAR & co. and reinforced or reset in the months preceding her death.
I’ve heard Keith gloat, power trip about it — how he can set emotional triggers — in interviews since and assumed he glommed onto my phraseology, however if he were regularly using the term prior to that interview, well, that’s a horse of a different color.
Not sure of the provenance of the phrase ’emotional trigger” but strongly recommend this book in relation to the subject:
https://www.amazon.com/Looking-Spinoza-Sorrow-Feeling-Brain/dp/0156028719/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436033438&sr=1-1&keywords=looking+for+spinoza
The phrase goes back to the early 70’s and emerging human potential movements.
There’s an old Zen saying which I like:
“If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.”
To me, that means we are all responsible for our own growth. We are our own teachers. The lesson is to become kinder and more loving. Just that, because Its enough.
Nobody can teach you those things. You have to teach yourself.
If you meet the Vanguard, or anyone else who claims to have all the answers, you’ve just met the biggest liar of your life.
Don’t kill him, though. Just laugh and walk away.
I don’t think that’s what the quote means. Buddha’s don’t exist “on the road”. They are away from the world typically in isolation – in some hills, mountains, caves, etc. – and lay people in general don’t know that they are a Buddha. True ones aren’t out there seeking disciples. In other words you have to search to find them.
They are like Pai Mei of “Kill Bill” fame in the sense of being masters of their creed and uncaring for other aspects of the world. In the case of a Buddha, they are predominantly spiritual.
I think it will mean different things to different people.
The low-stress lifestyle in custody seems to be doing him good.
https://bit.ly/2PJOuHc
Paul. 😁😂🤣
I’m not talking to Paul after his curiously timed “Heidi is broken and needs to be fixed” comment but that is a funny pic.
I didn’t make such a comment. And wouldn’t.
Unless I got you mixed up with someone else. In any case, if I offended you even by mistake, I do apologise.
NC Girl, whoever you are, you are right on the money as usual. You don’t pussy foot around. Thanks!