Editor’s Note: It is good to get some opposing views from readers. Here is one that suggests that Keith Alan Raniere was punished too harshly for his misdeeds.
By Friend of a Friend
Coercion?
Yes, Raniere was coercive. He collected collateral.
He said he did it help others, but I don’t buy it because it as not an effective means of behavior change.
Negative punishment/self-imposed coercive strategies have not been shown to be an effective motivator of enforcing lifelong behavior change.
Apparently, no collateral was released so what should we charge Raniere with: using ineffective, medieval strategies?
Legal harassment and intimidation?
Yes, he litigated unnecessarily and caused many people harm when he could have acted humbly, admitted his mistakes, made amends and moved on. Raniere and Bronfman should pay people back for the harm they’ve caused them including Frank Parlato, Rick Ross, and Joe O’Hara and anyone else they’ve hurt.
But, this is more of a civil matter than a criminal matter.
Branding
What does it come down to?
A bunch of people got upset about human branding which is not a crime and then the government looked into everything and decided Raniere was operating immorally. He was having lots of sex, had an underage girlfriend at one time, making lots of money, slipping some people across the border, not paying people fairly and litigating anyone who complained and caused him problems. That’s it.
What should be done with Raniere?
Raniere is an asshole. He’s a liar who doesn’t live up to what he preaches. What minister or religious leader does? He needs to be publicly shamed and pay those back whom he’s hurt.
Does he deserve 15 years to life in prison? IMO, No!
He’s just another jerk. He hasn’t committed murder, he hasn’t robbed banks or traded secrets to the Russians. He’s done nothing many of our present leaders haven’t done.
He’s had affairs, lied about it, cheated people out of money.
Sound like anyone you know?
He deserves everything he’ll get in prison. He a 5’6″ punk, that dyes his hair with pen ink, and stuffs socks under his feet to look a few inches taller. He devised a scam to abuse women. Sadly for him, everyone in prison has a mom, sister or daughter thats been preyed on, by this type of monster. So its likely to be a very tough sentence. Pack Vaseline Keith.
Having sex with a 15 year old child is a crime, as well as possessing child pornography. I won’t make any excuses for a pedophile and neither should anyone else.
“He’s had affairs, lied about it, cheated people out of money.”
To the original author of this article, “A friend.” if you’re talking about “a friend of the good guys,” there are significant differences you’re overlooking with your rudimentary comparison.
First of all, a grown man who had a handful of adult female friends over a time span of twenty years is quite different than Vanguard who set up a -cult- in order to take over the lives of hundreds of people, some who were underage girls, who Vanguard subjected to illegal acts. “Good guys” never did any such thing, not even close.
Second of all, I seriously doubt those who lost money in NXIVM agreed, in writing, to take risk on a legitimate business venture. There is a stark contrast here. Among other things, at trial, it proved difficult to argue that Vanguard was not unjustly enriched — of course Vanguard was unjustly enriched. “Good guys” was not unjustly enriched. Such an argument will fail because it’s simply not true. That belief came from one of many assumptions with origins in the negative, cynical, unapologetic mind of Dennis K. Burke; evidence will prove it was an entirely misguided assumption.
Burke has now moved on from covering up gun-running scandals enacted while he was in a position of trust, to working directly to defend and empower the cartels themselves. And yet he has the audacity to try to lecture others about their historical conduct. Talk about an asshole.
“You should never assume. You know what happens when you assume. You make an ass out of you and me because that’s how it’s spelled.” — Ellen DeGeneres
Sorry for the lame quote. Lame as it is, couldn’t find anything more appropriate at the moment.
I think Keith deserves capital punishment
He sure does if he had “people killed for his beliefs” and thought he got away with it.
To be honest, he probably doesn’t deserve life. He’s committed a bunch of crimes, they are sinister in nature and people were hurt. At the same time, most of the victims can recover and it’s very unlikely he’d be able to repeat his crimes.
I’d like to see him released in 15 years or so, with no friends or resources to speak of. See what it feels like to be completely alone, unattractive, unemployable, looking for something way to redeem himself. Maybe NXIVM continues in some form and he’s on the outside looking in, unwelcome and scorned for the illegitimacy he brought to the program.
And I’d like John Tighe to cover his re-entry into society.
Portraiting Keith Rainere’s criminal lifestyle as a “jerk” is like self-affirming I should get a job in Apple because I love my iPhone SE and I’m a master using it!
More of a civil matter? I risk being repetitive: Life savings stolen, careers ruined, identities crushed, sisters lost (“suicided”), self esteem decimated, children aborted, abandoned, or disowned, innocent people falsely accused, arrested, sued, and imprisoned.
A scheme to have Toni Natalie imprisoned, raped and killed in Mexico – for revenge. A thirteen year old repeatedly raped in the 1990s. Threatening letters sent to people who left, on the letterhead of some Mexican attorney.
People sued into bankruptcies. Bankruptcies interfered with. Vandalism done to the homes of John Tighe and Joe O’Hara. Dog(s) killed. Money laundered and hidden away. Taxes unpaid.
He’s not just an asshole, Asshole.
TO BE CLEAR, this was not simply about a guy who got a lot of voluntary sex and money from willing people.
We don’t need any paedophiles and rapists moving freely amongst us. He has expressed no remorse for his crimes and is indifferent to the suffering he has caused; so he should live and die in prison where he can’t rape any children or abuse another woman.
Way to go sleepy head, don’t let any facts get in the way of your sweeping generalisations!
This was the argument of his attorney and it’s absurd. Racketeering is a crime committed through extortion or coercion and it’s illegal. In this case women were extorted for sex. Whether the collateral was released isn’t relevant. If I kidnap your child and then coerce you to have sex with me, but don’t release your child afterwards, that doesn’t negate any criminal activity with regards to racketeering. Women offered collateral not knowing it would later be used to coerce them into sex. And let’s be totally clear about our justice system, you’re ultimately tried by your peers in society, i.e. a jury. A crime is just some text book jargon. Your peers can ultimately throw you in jail for whatever they want (i.e. deem you guilty), that’s how the system works. They looked at Keith’s body of work and said “this guy shouldn’t be integrated into our society”. Something to think about next time you do something morally questionable. Sorry, this guy needed to go to jail. On top of all his other crimes, including sex with a minor, it needs to be a life sentence.
You’re right, this is a form of jury nullification, although it’s usually thought of in terms of letting people go because the jury doesn’t agree with a law that they think is unfairly harsh. In this case, the “ick” factor trumped any detailed analysis of the elements of the crimes.
Sorry dipshit, but your ‘child kidnapping analogy’ isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison.
The original photos weren’t kidnapped. They were given freely. Duh.
Also… If you gave custody of your child to a kidnapper with your parental consent, then it’s not kidnapping. It’s called babysitting. 🙂
Also, photos do not have the same value as kids, you fucken retard. 🙂
Yeah, Keith is a turd who belongs in jail.
But so does Kristin Keeffe, his most evil wing woman who did many evil deeds.
Yet Frank and Heidi have forgiven her, even though they haven’t forgiven Nancy, Allison or Lauren for doing lesser evil deeds than Keeffe.
Frank is a biased asshole.
Frank will defend Keeffe as though he’s defending a Saintly Angel, yet he’ll shit all over Nancy and Lauren as though they were worse than Keeffe.
Frank isn’t a real journalist.
Real journalists don’t allow their personal bias to interfere with their reporting.
Frank should expose every evil doer, not just the ones he doesn’t personally like.
I have already asked a Jamaican witchdoctor friend of mine to put curse on Frank.
Bangkooky,
If SoccerMom1245 had a son like you she be ProChoiceAbort™.
I think I read somewhere on the Frankreport, that you are training to perform the first fully solo A.T.M. Good luck to you!!!!!
Just remember to use Cottonelle Wipes™ ahead of time.
There is always the possibility of secondary infections. 😉
Uh oh, expletives galore, it looks like I trolled you pretty good. Actually, the analogy works fine. It doesn’t matter how the person came into possession of the children, if they are later used for ransom… drum roll… Racketeering. The photos may have been given freely, but the women didn’t know they were going to be later used against them to extort sex. This is a classic racketeering case. 12 jurors agreed, so do I. This article is wrong and there is a misunderstanding of the law.
Dearest “Friend of a Friend”,
Once again please go back to your Troll Lair.
What’s the matter is playing Fortnight or COD during summer vacation getting old?
This was the argument of his attorney and it’s absurd. Racketeering is a crime committed through extortion or coercion and it’s illegal. In this case women were extorted for sex. Whether the collateral was released isn’t relevant. If I kidnap your child and then coerce you to have sex with me, but don’t release your child afterwards, that doesn’t negate any criminal activity with regards to racketeering. Women offered collateral not knowing it would later be used to coerce them into sex. And let’s be totally clear about our justice system, you’re ultimately tried by your peers in society, i.e. a jury. A crime is just some text book jargon. Your peers can ultimately throw you in jail for whatever they want (i.e. deem you guilty), that’s how the system works. They looked at Keith’s body of work and said “this guy shouldn’t be integrated into our society”. Something to think about next time you do something morally questionable. Sorry, this guy needed to go to jail. On top of all his other crimes, including sex with a minor, it needs to be a life sentence.
He has raped many under age women. That might not have been the target of this trial, but if this is the way to stop him permanently, justice is done. Is that in step with the legal technicalities? No. But it’s “ethical” under NXIVM terms and you argue like a NXian so that should satisfy you. No ultimate victims, right?
Perhaps this writer is simply sarcastic. I don’t know,but, I don’t agree. I believe he should serve the maximum sentence. However, wouldn’t it be great if he does what John Tighe suggests and gives up names?
It would fit Raniere’s modus operandi to f*ck over others.
All of the NXIVM defendants deserve good long stretches in prison for the evil they’ve inflicted.
Far more years than they will actually get.
You are right. He does not deserve prison. Niether do Claire, Lauren or Mack.
They deserve to be beaten, raped and imprisoned in the most humiliating manner possible, and left to publicly starve to death while stripped naked in the public square.
That and only that will even the score, imho.
The NXIVM elite all deserve severe public humiliation for the rest of their lives.
They need to be taught to be ashamed of themselves and their behavior.
Good idea.
Let’s make the prison terms short, but provide no more than 500 calories per day (virtually no protein or fat), with sleep restricted to two hours at a time, twice a day. There can be readiness drills and required “acts of care” for other prisoners. There would be no visitors, because contact with people outside the group is bad. Commissary items would be limited to sugarless gum and ramen noodles.
I think five years straight of that would do.
but by his own admission HE HAS COMMITTED MURDER
He said, I’ve had people killed because of my beliefs,” so we’re talking about more than one murder. “Had people killed,” suggests that he had someone do the killing for him, Manson style. Some of his followers are twisted enough to do it.
Chicky,
The murders Raniere mentioned…
…….I think Raniere was referencing are the 1-4 suicides he most likely had an indirect role in.
Meaning he caused such psychological damage to the individuals with pre-existing mental health conditions he drove them over the edge.
Raniere has been quoted multiple times now that he was “trying to break” various individuals.
Allison Mack was driven to insanity. Don’t take my word for it read Mark Vincete’s testimony transcripts here on the Frankreport.
Raniere was referring to the peace movement he attempted in Mexico. The drug and human smugglers apparently never attended any of the NXIVM classes being offered and decided to do what they do, kill people.
Scott,
That’s a bigger stretch than my own theory.
niceguy – Keith was saying that well before those 1-4 suicides you reference. It was a “go-to” line of his that he’d use when his passivity wasn’t getting the desired result.
Coercion? [No, blackmail.]
Legal harassment and intimidation? [No, SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation). Many states need stronger anti-SLAPP laws, and New York is one of them. Bronfman has enough money to tie up a civil lawsuit in court for years, if not decades. Those she harmed are too broke to afford a civil lawsuit.]
Branding? [No, fraud. The reason for the cauterizing for a half-hour or so without anesthesia was another form of blackmail, not “empowering women.”]
What should be done with Raniere? [This is a moot point, he’s already been found guilty. Hopefully he won’t see the light of day again.]
Raniere is an asshole. He’s a liar who doesn’t live up to what he preaches. What minister or religious leader does? He needs to be publicly shamed and pay those back whom he’s hurt. [Most ministers and religious leaders live up to what they preach. He can’t pay back those he’s hurt, he’s broke and has no skills to make money, except as a pimp who doesn’t want his whores to have sex with any other man.]
Does he deserve 15 years to life in prison? IMO, No! [Raniere doesn’t deserve 15 years to life. He deserves life, multiple times over.
He’s just another jerk. He hasn’t committed murder, he hasn’t robbed banks or traded secrets to the Russians. He’s done nothing many of our present leaders haven’t done. [Those aren’t the only crimes that people are put to prison for, Raniere committed many other crimes that have long prison sentences.]
He’s had affairs, lied about it, cheated people out of money. [I wouldn’t call a single guy having sex with multiple woman having affairs. Cheating people out of money, and he cheated a lot of people out of a lot of money, is the least of his crimes.]
Sound like anyone you know? [Yes, Raniere.]