A Fox News story on Barbara Bouchey helps make her case that “There was some good to be found in Nxivm.”
Bouchey tells Fox, “There were hundreds of coaches that were there for the right reason and that doesn’t get conveyed. They get lumped in with the sex cult slave thing and that’s not an appropriate description of the majority of people that were involved.”
I think what Bouchey says about Nxivm coaches is true. Many, perhaps most, of the coaches, were good people with an honest intention to help others and earn a living while doing so. They thought the Nxivm teachings were good and wanted others to share in it – for a fee. It was the life coaching business to them – and not a sinister cult.
Somehow, the evil genius of Raniere was such that he was able to get basically good people to follow him and promote his evil agenda, disguising it to them, in varying degrees, and making them believe that he was seeking the betterment of the world.
Bouchey joined NXIVM in March 2000 and joined Raniere’s harem that same year. She did not know at first she was in a harem. She had a large role in building Nxivm into what it ultimately became. She says she created Vanguard Week and the weekly volleyball community events, as well as enrolling hundreds of people into the courses.
Not everyone who took a course got to meet Raniere and certainly, only a small percentage actually had sex with him.
Bouchey says she did not know Raniere had a harem at first and thought she was in a mainly monogamous relationship with Keith – having known about only three other women he was having sex with other than herself.
That he was actually having sex with somewhere between a dozen and two dozen women, she said, came as a surprise to her. Bouchey ended her sexual relationship with Raniere, she said, in March 2008.
She remained for another year as a member and was on Nxivm’s Executive Board. She was one of the highest ranking members – below only Nancy Salzman and harem members Barbara Jeske and Pam Cafritz. [And possibly Edgar Boone].
When she left NXIVM in April 2009, it caused a stir. The actual details of how the departure occurred varies slightly based on who tells the story, but Frank Report has been able to gather that Bouchey and Susan Dones spent about 10 hours over three days questioning Raniere about his dubious activities. including his excessive sexual propensities.
Dones used her video camera to film the meetings [and it includes the famous clip where Keith says “I have had people killed etc.”.]
At one point, Dones privately questioned Raniere, then afterward made a final decision to leave Nxivm. Dones was the head of the Nxivm Center in Tacoma, Washington
Dones led several other women to leave, as did Bouchey. It was Bouchey who initially brought Keith’s sexual proclivities to light to Dones, telling her and several other women that Keith was having sex with most of the Nxivm Executive Board [including herself].
The nine women who left in April 2009 collectively became known as the Nxivm 9.
Fox reports that Bouchey insisted she never witnessed any alleged sex slaves during her time with the organization [2000-2009].
This is at least partly true. The women who Keith controlled for years were his slaves in fact, but they were not called “sex slaves.” They were called his “inner circle” and most of them did everything Keith ordered them to do – including threesomes – even when they did not want to – according to testimony in the trial.
Bouchey is considered by the prosecution in the trial of Raniere to have been part of his inner circle. There have never been any allegations that Bouchey committed any crimes whatsoever.
If nothing else, Bouchey is consistent. She is trying to defend the good she saw in Nxivm. She has told Frank Report that the Nxivm community that was built around Keith “was like Camelot.”
“It existed for about 20 years,” she told FOX. “Seventeen thousand people came through the door… I have seen many people come through the door and get amazing benefits. To say that NXIVM was just a master/slave organization or a sex slave cult is not an accurate description of what it was for 20 years.
“It’s only in the last few years that this very small group of women joined this secret women’s society,” she continued. “It was not broadcast and it didn’t include everybody… It paints those of us who were the good people, who wanted to do good work as these Kool-Aid-drinking idiots who are part of a sex cult. It’s not accurate… It just makes people think, ‘Wow, I would never be a fool and fall for that.'”
Bouchey also spoke of Nancy Salzman, who, while Bouchey was in Nxivm, was Keith’s top lieutenant. [After Bouchey quit, Raniere blamed Salzman for her departure and demoted Salzman to a role beneath Clare Bronfman, according to several sources. Bronfman, a Seagram’s heiress, funded Raniere’s legal attacks on enemies, including Bouchey and Dones.]
Bouchey told Fox about Salzman: “I had great trust, respect, and admiration for her…Nancy was an amazing teacher and trainer…”
Bouchey also spoke to Fox about the good she found in Nxivm and how it helped her.
“I found the curriculum was far more effective, efficient and thought-provoking,” she explained. “It helped me move through some conflicts and limitations in a faster fashion than things I’ve done in the past. That was really compelling… I admired their mission, what they were hoping to accomplish, their wanting to empower people and raise awareness on being humanitarians of the world… [And] I was being encouraged very strongly on multiple levels to get engaged and immerse myself in the program.”
She also invested, lent or gave Raniere some $1.6 million to invest in the commodities market – which Raniere promptly lost. It was her life savings. She said he lied to her about how he was using it.
Left to right: Barbara Bouchey, Keith Raniere and Nancy Salzman in 2006. (Courtesy Barbara Bouchey)
Bouchey told Fox that she first thought Raniere was “…very unassuming. He would walk right by you and you wouldn’t even notice him. He was kind of nerdy. He had a bashful, college look about him. I didn’t find him physically attractive at all. But I was intrigued based on what Nancy had shared with me about him.”
Nancy and his other wing-women told everyone that Keith was the smartest man in the world, a judo champion and a speed sprinter. He was also the most ethical man with a huge compassionate heart.
He was in effect a combination of Einstein, Gandhi and the all-around athlete, Jim Thorpe.
Barbara Bouchey and Keith Raniere in 2002. — Courtesy Barbara Bouchey
Bouchey apparently was deceived about their relationship. She thought he was her boyfriend when he was having sex with dozens of women. [She knew only about three other women, so she thought they were more like boyfriend and girlfriend, she said.]
“It wasn’t normal,” she told Fox. “I didn’t see him a lot. The times I saw him weren’t long. It didn’t take on what I would call a traditional kind of relationship. And he was immersed in NXIVM… I wasn’t necessarily bothered at first because I was 40 at the time and a self-made millionaire. I was a workaholic. So I understood what it was like to be passionate about something… I wanted to align myself with the organization and make a difference in the world. I also wanted to work on myself.”
Keith Raniere and Barbara Bouchey in 2007. — Courtesy Barbara Bouchey
Actually, Keith may not have been working on Nxivm so much as he was busy managing his harem. Testimony at trial paints a picture of a man who texted his harem members all day and night when he wasn’t having sex with them or taking close up pictures of them nude.
Lauren Salzman testified that Raniere was so brazen that he even had a threesome in Bouchey’s condo [presumably when she was not there]. Daniela testified that she would give blowjobs to Raniere while he would sit in a chair and watch the monitor to make sure none of this other harem members came in and surprised them.
Bouchey, though she says the Nxivm teachings [sometimes called ‘tech’] was brilliant, told Fox that they were being misused after a time.
“I didn’t think people were paid properly,” Bouchey told Fox. “The tools and technology that used to empower people, I noticed those were being used to manipulate us in ways I found abusive or punishing. … It felt punishing to me. And then there was favoritism going on… People were being put in leadership roles when they didn’t deserve them….”
Barbara Bouchey believed her boyfriend Keith Raniere was unfaithful to her with at least three other women. She stayed with him for another 7 years because she believed in his goodness and the value of his teachings. (Courtesy of Barbara Bouchey)
It took a year for Bouchey to learn she was not the only woman in Raniere’s life, she told Fox. She remained with him as her boyfriend for another 7 years.
“I had learned there were a few other women,” said Bouchey. “By then, I was really aligned with the philosophy of trying to work through anything that causes me to be angry, fearful or have lack of compassion… They taught, ‘Don’t you want to be free of being jealous or angry?’ For a while, I believed that. I did want to be free of it. But I am a monogamous person and it wasn’t in my nature. I started to suspect other women, [other than the three] but they would always poo-poo me… I was surrounded by all of these wonderful people, learning of this amazing philosophy. They said I was going to throw all of this away.”
Barbara Bouchey, Michelle Salzman-Myers, Lauren Salzman and Nancy Salzman in San Francisco, circa 2002. — Courtesy of Barbara Bouchey
Bouchey claimed she confronted Raniere about the three other women [he actually had about 20 other women at the time].
“He wasn’t happy about that,” she told Fox. “He didn’t speak to me for months…”
But Barbara stayed.
“Unbeknownst to me, he put into action a smear campaign against me and began to quietly propagate in the community that I was a troublemaker and that I was going to destroy the company… He would give you the silent treatment, blame you, twist your words, accuse you of things you didn’t do, point out issues that you didn’t have and then send his inner circle to tell you the same thing… It was very abusive and I was subjected to that a lot….”
Bouchey also told Fox that she now thinks Keith is “mentally unstable.”
“He must suffer from some sort of delusion. We were clueless about the things he was doing. We just wanted to do the good work… We didn’t know about the corruption… We just wanted to make a difference… Had I known anything like that was going on, you can be sure I would have done something about it… I didn’t see Keith as a master guru. He was my boyfriend. I thought he was a brilliant entrepreneur with a great mission.”
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Barbara, sorry but when the core (Keith) is rotten the entire Apple is rotten.
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That sounds a very sensible and good summary and exactly what is likely to have happened.
The only bit I find weird is why would anyone give him their life savings to invest. That was very very silly indeed. you should spread your savings around and not let any one person have control particularly your sex partner to have anything to do wth them – the last person you should let get involved with them.
I don’t really know why anyone wants to bother with self-help stuff though or buying courses and that kind of thing and there did seem to be this commission structure which surely should ring warning bells – being paid for bringing others in other than traditional commercial agency is always a red flag.
The press coverage has concentrated on sex slave as if that were the whole thing, rather than 17,000 people taking courses nothing to do with the sex side. She is right to try to get a more balanced picture out there.
Jane – totally agree with you here. Barb [Financial Planner] was so smitten with Keith, she gave him her life savings to invest and he freaking lost it all. Seems like Barb’s judgement was a bit off. Tsk. Tsk.
Barb, What was Keith’s secret formula to clinch the deal for you in handing over the large amount of money? Did you sucker you into believing you’d be richer than before? In hindsight, you should be richer in common sense after getting snookered. I’d keep this little blip of poor udgement off your resume so none of your financial planning clients know. Mum’s the word.
The way you point it out, it’s a good example of how deep in she was – and how Raniere could take people in – that she gave her life savings to a conman gambler, even though she was supposedly a financial professional.
Yeah, it’s rather ironic to say the least. She worked her ass off, as she claims, and became a self-made millionaire at the young age of 40. Keith blew through her $ in a fraction of that time. Las Vegas would surely roll out the red carpet for little Keith. Unlucky at cards, and certainly unlucky at love.
I’m gonna say it ‘til I’m blue in the face. I’ve been involved in, at least, the periphery of NXIVM since 1984 and most of these comments are, unfortunately, trolls with an agenda that won’t make one whit of difference in the outcome.
Barb was cultivated by Nancy Salzman & Co. using KAR as a tool as much as he used the slaves themselves. I don’t agree with Barb on anything much but I don’t think her intent was to rob anyone. I think the true bandits used Keith as a figurehead. I wasn’t so sure at first but I most certainly am now after living and reliving it. Jeff Peterson is right straight down the line. Except for the dark side of MAGA part. I don’t get that at all.
I hope I didn’t offend you Heidi with my comments regarding Barb. I also blame Nancy as much as Keith. Both are monsters. I’m sure all of this is bringing back so many memories.
The perceived ‘good’ doesn’t make up for the actually experienced bad.
Barb is sick, she is mentally unfit and broken.
I don’t think she’s broken. I think she’s just hard-hearted and greedy.
C’mon guys. Judge not lest ye be judged. She suffered more than you’ll ever want to know and she needs guidance and love to heal. Gina tried so, so hard to do that for herself and might have succeeded had she received the right help. But few knew what she was struggling with and I am absolutely certain now it wasn’t any pre-existing mental illness. She was deliberately, systematically broken down by forces other than, in addition to KAR and Salzman.
In a tall glass, mix 6oz of fresh squeezed orange juice with 4 oz fresh pomegranate juice. Add 1 tsp of cyanide. Stir. Drink! Does it matter how much fresh, organic ingredients are in there? Perhaps there’s a way to drink around the cyanide?
I’m guessing that Barb would say that she just wants to make the drink, without the cyanide. The point that’s perhaps still lost, is that then the ingredients are widely available, and can be mixed by anyone, anywhere – there’s really nothing special about the mixologist, even if they have a particularly engaging barside manner, and glibly claim it’s a secret recipe.
I totally agree. Nothing special here, there or anywhere else. I think that Barbara is purposely misinterpreting the cyanide issue. Her version is that DOS is the cyanide? Yet, she left long before it’s existence? The cyanide is the manipulation and mind control, and it’s really the first ingredient in the glass, not the last! It has always been present, demonstrated in her blind trust loss of $1.6 million before KR was really even getting started! I don’t think it’s helping her to insist on her fantasyland of what was, but I do believe her adjustment in reality allows her to avoid her own responsibility in helping perpetuate a very destructive cult! She hasn’t healed. Until she faces herself and surrenders to the fact that she allowed herself to be that controlled and manipulated, I’m afraid she never will! She won’t pull off the bandaid.
Here we go again, another thread about Barb where people ask her questions she won’t answer.
It seems that for Barb the only rock in her shoe is that Keith was sleeping with a lot of women (3 is okay but 20 is becoming too visible for her ego). She thought it was great to make a lot of money. She would like to find again the golden goose or rather the donlkay of “donkey skin” the donkey that shits gold.
She seems to be someone who’s sole focus is money.
She doesn’t seem to care about the abuses others suffer.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Barbara, your clock is broken and there are a lot more than two minutes in the course of a day. The publicity you’re generating for yourself — is there any mainstream (or even alternative) reporter you haven’t talked with? — isn’t going to last. Sweetie, it’s time to wake up (get a clock that works!)
On a side note I like the redesign of the website and the new polished bio’s.
Barbara,
Did you forget about all the people that borrowed money from friends and family and went into debt that NXIVM bilked?
Barbara please get a petition of just 200 people out of the 16,000 or so that had a positive exuberant experience.
Nxivm offered an exhuberant experiences at an exorbitant prices.
I remember Sarah Edmonson being asked how she would work people she stated ” I would say who would you borrow money from if you needed to pay for an operation to save your life?”
Sarah sounded so ethical. What was your sales pitch ?
Barbara how much did you make in commissions?
Heidi Hutchinson has basically overtime explained where most of Keith Raniere’s tech came from.
Guess what Barbara?
It did not come from Keith Raniere.
Barb benefitted, monetarily, by her association with NXIVM and I believe seeks to do so once again.
NXIVM members with money were steered to her financial planning business. Without their participation in NXIVM they would never have come in contact with her.
Sure, good people took the so called intensives. Let’s not forget it was all stolen material and high pressure tacyics used. Long hours, over day after day, etc.
No, Barb needs to go away, go far away and shut up and Frank needs to stop giving her a forum.
Will you stop pushing this lie about the good in NXIVM?
We get Barb is attempting to posirion herself as the lynch pin to bring NXIVM back.
We want to be rid of NXIVM and all of the members for good.
NXIVM is rotten to the core.
Agree with G 100%!!!
“There was some good to be found in Nxivm.” Yeah, there was some good stuff about the Mafia.
The Feds said Nxivm is a pyramid scheme, and from what’s come out at trial about the structure of this criminal organization that’s exactly what it was. The bags and drawers full of cash sure look suspicious. Humanitarian? Nobody in the organization knows the meaning of the word; the Nxivm “philosophy” was pilfered from Ayn Rand and is just about the opposite of humanitarian, it’s a celebration of selfish individualism. Life coaching in and of itself is a ripoff, a scam. The idea that someone can tell you how to live your life is both pathetic and absurd. Telling people they don’t have to pay taxes? Brilliant. The courses were manipulative, soul-sucking, and morally vacuous.
What good did Nxivm do anyone. Vicente, the filmmaker, his career tanked. Allison Mack, the actress, her career tanked. See a pattern here?
Want to learn something, want to be a better person, want to get your life together? Read a book. Go to college. See a shrink. Don’t pay money for a sleazy scam like Nxivm.
It was a fraud from beginning to end.
so what is new, here.
Frank’s a gentleman but Barb, please, you always tell me I’m a “good person” (and that’s a dubious distinction among NXIANS) but why do we always clash to the point of screaming tirades about this good in NX thing before you storm off. Usually to do an interview or make a court appearance. Logic, K?
If I’m a good person post NX (kinda) and I can’t stand hearing a word of good about it from anyone, you too can join our good persons club in standing them down and stomping them out w/o prostrating yourself underfoot of both sides anymore. They’re STILL using you as a scapegoat and still trying to fleece me like a sheep (if not slaughter me like a lamb). So please consider rising to see and tell your own true story, instead of carrying the torch for an oppressed group of ex-NXers that does not exist anymore than Camelot or Paradise!
Jay testifies that Allison Mack told her that seducing KAR would heal her sexual abuse trauma.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/michaelblackmon/allison-mack-jay-nxivm-keith-raniere-sex-cult-trial
More from Jay.
https://mol.im/a/7129841
Jay was in DOS a year (and longer in Nx?) before she bothered to google the cult. Despite being raised in the internet age, I suspect most recruits didn’t first check Nx out—because they trusted their recruiter/friend.
“Jay said she freaked out when she looked up Raniere on Google…and announced to Mack she was leaving.”
I think Jay may have been brought directly into DOS, another one of Raniere’s brainchild ideas that, fortunately for the rest of humanity, backfired. They tried to boil the frog named Jay too fast and she jumped out of the water.
People are still getting into MLM scams without checking them out on the internet first. They are being told the internet is like what is written on the bathroom wall at a highway truck stop (lies), so don’t pay any attention to it. Big mistake. Big. Huge.
“Jay said she freaked out when she looked up Raniere on Google and announced to Mack she was leaving.
She said Mack broke down in tears and asked her, ‘Are you saying you think I’m an accomplice to a child molester?’’
‘Yes, that’s what I thought,’ Jay said she replied.”
I like this Jay. She has guts. She stood up and defied them. I hope Mack has been mulling over these words of Jay’s during long sleepless nights, with that ankle bracelet keeping her awake, worrying what her prison sentence will be come September. “Accomplice to a child molester”, exactly right.
Dont click this link it’s collecting IP addresses
So what? A lot of sites collect IP addresses. Is this why people don’t check out NXIVM online before they join, because some of the sites they visit may collect their IP address?
Great link Pyriel!
Everyone should check it out!
” the Nxivm community that was built around Keith “was like Camelot.”
I never knew that King Arthur was a pedophile.
Some of the sexual abuses in NXIVM were going on in 1990 when Raniere abused Rhiannon, a then 12-year-old girl.
And Raniere seems to always have a harem although the early harem seems to have consisted of age-appropriate consenting adults.
Raniere’s sexual abuse of the 15-year-old Mexican girl occurred in 2006 or so.
If Barbara Bouchey is still under the spell of NXIVM after all that has transpired, then we must assume that many more members of this cult are still vulnerable to its siren song.
(Time for Pea Onyu to make another impassioned plea to Barb Bouchey to rejoin NXIVM and march with their Vanguard into a Glorious Sunset.)
It appears that Raniere’s first Pimp, Pam Cafritz, was more gentle with women and ruled the harem with a light hand.
That probably avoided a lot of trouble.
And Raniere’s second Pimp, Allison Mack, was more like Ilse Koch, the infamous Nazi torturer.
Ilse Koch was known as “The Witch of Buchenwald” (Die Hexe von Buchenwald) by the inmates because of her cruelty and lasciviousness toward prisoners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch
According to “Nicole”, Mack wanted to be called Madam which is a nice way of saying Pimp.
NXIVM DOS women had no illusions that Mack was anything more than a pimp.
Your right in this account Shadowstate.
In the past I felt bad for Barbara and still do, but she should not be promoting NXIVM tech which is based off of Scientology and NLP and a host of other pseudo sciences.
There is no scientific validity to anything NXIVM taught.
Raniere stole other people’s crap and rebranded it.
Shadow, you’re missing a lot of pimps between Pam and Ally. Sometimes I think Nancy is still working overtime brainwashing everyone into believing she never existed before KAR and served only his puny dick’s interests. Mark of the devil. Don’t look here. Doesn’t exist. I’m seeing it everywhere these days and WILL NOT be told I’m just seeing things that don’t exist. A fantasy played out, or “manifest” as Keith copped from his acolytes or their their friend’s and families experiences, EXISTS and can become reality for anyone and everyone who cannot RESIST.
Hells to the no! Throw that cookie in the trash! And scrub the whole oven clean!!
😆
Finding the good in NXIVM….kinda like a chocolate chip cookie with one cat poop chunk instead of a chocolate chip. Would you still eat it? Since it was baked together, the smell has permeated the whole cookie. Would you just try to eat around it?
Well said, Somebody. Disgusting…but fitting.
Barbara is just being Barbara. All she’s saying is that before the smell permeated the cookie, a lot of the cookie was tasty. But she still admits that the cat poop bite was a doozy.
LMAO.
“Finding the good in NXIVM….kinda like a chocolate chip cookie with one cat poop chunk instead of a chocolate chip.”
And I was just going to order a chocolate chip cookie!
Thank you for keeping me on my diet.
Apparently, some people like cat poop.
Scott, the scientific name for that is “coprophagia.”
Everything sounds better when expressed in Latin.
Frank keeps forgetting about the elephant in the room.
‘Niceguy’ seemed to realize that Barb’s hands weren’t totally clean either, in another post.
FACT: Barb Bouchey (a certified financial planner) loaned Keith $1.5 million dollars (as a PERSONAL loan) without officially transferring this money to an account that bears Keith’s SSN and name, which allowed Keith to fly under the IRS radar by avoiding 1099’s being issued in his personal name.
That’s a “no-no” for financial planners. 🙂
FACT: This $1.5 million dollars (that Barb loaned Keith) was either transferred or kept in an account not bearing Keith’s personal SSN.
How do I know that for sure?
Because if Bouchey had properly transferred that money into an account bearing Keith’s SSN, the IRS would have flagged him for audit years ago when he chose not to file any tax returns.
*Let’s not forget, Barb Bouchey made it clear that Keith was PERSONALLY responsible for repaying that $1.5 million loan after the money was lost (she did not say that NXIVM corporation owed her that money).
This means the money should have been housed in an account bearing Keith’s own SSN.
Financial planners are taught not to assist clients in avoiding IRS detection. It’s a “no-no”.
Frank can verify these facts by phoning any tax attorney or financial planner.
But I’m guessing he’ll just delete my post to protect Barb’s reputation on this site as Snow White.
**Also… If a trader keeps their client’s money housed in one of their own trading accounts (which some smaller traders might do) they still have to issue 1099’s in the name of THEIR CLIENTS to report all gains/losses to the IRS.
Thus, even if Bouchey used her own trading accounts (to handle Keith’s trading) she still would have been required to report his gains/losses via 1099’s using Keith’s own SSN.
*I don’t know whether Barb kept Keith’s money in one of her accounts (or) whether she transferred that loan money to another 3rd party who wasn’t Keith.
But I do know that she did one of those 2 options.
Why?
Because if she had properly transferred that money into an account bearing Keith’s SSN, the IRS would have flagged him for audit years ago when he chose not to file any tax returns.
Thus, common sense tells me she never did that.
Frank just ignores these facts and says that Bouchey is as pure as the driven snow.
I’ve long puzzled over this issue of the “good” that people believe they’ve gotten from participation in high control groups or cults, including reading about the subject and interviewing a number of former members in search of answers, and have come to the following basic conclusions:
* At the initial levels, individuals often may get many of the benefits of group therapy and talk therapy, as well as confidence-building training. This is all comes from basic concepts and techniques taken from other sources, well-known mainstream examples of which include modern psychotherapy (especially these days, CBT), Toastmasters, Dale Carnegie, Outward Bound and even military training and service; though the group and its leader typically get undue credit for it.
* The well-intended individuals who come to such organization looking to better themselves, at the lower levels form a sort of support and motivational group that can also be beneficial. Again, that’s a common phenomenon, and comes from the natural synergy of human groups, and has little if anything to do with the teachings, practices, structure or leadership of the particular organization.
There are also other factors at work that cause people to unduly credit to their participation, things that they could have found in many other groups or that would have happened in their life anyway, along with others that are entirely illusory. Cognitive biases such as false attribution and the sunk costs effect naturally lead people to over-estimate the positive effects of things they do and groups they are involved in, and minimize the negative.
AnoyMaker you make some excellent points.
You’ve nailed it! That’s exactly what they do. They take you out of your comfort zone, and push you to overcome some obstacle. The achievement is made all that much sweeter when you consider the level of sleep/nutrition deprivation you are under. Somehow, the cult will have you translate that self pride into their achievement!? So moving forward, all your wins get credited to the cult, and all your losses are because you’re not good enough!
This is a good comment.
Same with Scientology – the early courses are apparently absolutely fine and helpful to lots of people. They suck you in, however, and later it gets worse.
Also, some people just want someone to listen to them and help them so almost anyone giving them a course or listening to them tends to do them good.
“Bouchey says she did not know Raniere had a harem at first and thought she was in a mainly monogamous relationship with Keith – having known about only three other women he was having sex with other than herself.”
It is a monogamous relationship or not a monogamous relationship. It can’t be “mainly monogamous” if he was bonking the three other women that she claims to have known about
“After Bouchey quit, Raniere blamed Salzman on her departure and demoted her to a role beneath Clare Bronfman, according to several sources.”
Did Nancy force him to have sex with numerous women? My God! He never accepted the blame for ANYTHING!
Barb was hypnotized by Nancy Salzman for something like a decade prior. Nancy honed her NLP/EST skills on suckers like Barb before joining forces with KAR under a larger no less sinister web. They may have “suicided” Barb’s best friend to strike the first hard Mallot over her head as Nancy dragged her into KAR and NXIVM’s orbit.
The more Barb venerated Keith, trying to please everyone — that was the goal wasn’t it? — the more she was competing with and pitted against the other slaves. That’s not to say she doesn’t have a huge ego to begin with but we were in an era where girls had little identity or ego at all of their own and some of us can’t resist fighting fire with Fire, sometimes.
Heidi, you give good gossip like confetti! So ol’ Nancy was an esthole. How self-important of her. First she bought a used car from Werner and drove it out of the lot. But that wasn’t good enough. So then she pulled into Raniere’s junkyard. He crowned her the dowager queen of mental masturbation, the carrier of the poleaxed philosopher’s stone of a pyramid scheme. How prefect.
She had best not testify. She will use up all of Raniere’s excuses on her own behalf. She will sit on her unshaven butt and let everyone know that she was only trying to do good in this world. For decades! And that the jury should have mercy on her as a misunderstood volunteer.
I’m not aware of Salzman having any connection to Erhard, est or Landmark – is that just speculative, or do you know that she had some involvement? I’d expect that Raniere would have rubbed elbows with people who had been involved with Landmark, and he apparently took some ideas from them, I’ve just never seen anything specific; Raniere’s exact Scientology connections are also unclear.
I have found out that besides studying actual hypnosis, Nancy Salzman did courses with a number of NLP trainers, including Joseph Yeager – who with the better-known Robert Dilts co-wrote an interesting like work called Overcoming Resistance to Persuasion with Neuro-Linguistic Programming, which sounds to me like title with sinister implications (the only way to get the work is to order it from Dilts and pay an arm and a leg for shipping and handling, so I have yet to actually see it).
You can find Robert Dilts at archive.org, search under text. Yeager less so, but there is some material. Dilts book ‘Sleight of Mouth’ (hah) is there in pdf, a good insight into the tactics and techniques being ‘taught,’ but more critically, being USED on the ‘students’ of these programs. And herein is the key to this cretinous VanGardasil’s influence. Steal a little of this, a little of that, throw in a heap of pretentiousness, ensure that the women and men around you are limited in their reading and education so that he always appeared as the smartest guy in the room. Target a certain psychological profile, like Bouchey for example, someone who had an emotionally stressful difficult childhood, or if the person had a well-adjusted background but fit the ‘seeker’ profile, wrench their deepest neuroses out of them to use against them. Make up issues for them if they are empty vessels. Those who can self-delude or self-brainwash are a cinch, just point them in a certain direction and away they go. Interesting that it appears to be the younger generation who triggered the downward spiral of the crummy drab 1980s dry-wall construction condos of nxivm. The younger women like Dani who resisted so much, or who simply told him to fuck off, or criticized his limp dick like her sister did, possessed some chutzpah these older broads did not. It rocked him to his core, it baffled him that they found other younger men attractive, so he had to keep adding more and more women to fill his void of sheer terror at being a mediocre schlub. Even Nancy–could she not envision life without a man there to lead her, to be subservient to, a substitute husband? The Bronfman sisters were nothing without smart men who earned for them to spend, and they sought out a surrogate father figure in Raniere. For all of Bouchey’s professed success, she needed male validation. How she missed the available professional men she surely met working in finance, in a state capitol overrun with lawyers, is beyond me. The outward appearance of all these accomplished women was a mirage. They were like the Real Housewives of NY, none of whom are actually housewives, and none of these women are either. Had they been, their lives would not have been so derailed. This is what Lauren really wanted, after all. There is nothing wrong with wanting a family, to be in a heterosexual committed relationship, maybe she failed to notice the rest of the world manages to do so. It is normal, to join a polygamous glorified prison camp cult is not normal. But the young women didn’t play ball and caused problems, and to her credit, once Sarah Edmundson married and created a family, she didn’t go along either. Once Kristin Keefe had a baby, she too bolted. We know of those who did not or could not leave precisely because they stayed, desperately trying to substitute a cult for a family, like Clyne, like Mack. And they didn’t do it for God, for any spirituality, but for cold clinical sales coaching, for introductory level psychology classes, for cheesy self-help crapola that should have gone out of style with macrame, ferns, quiche, Earth shoes, and pet rocks. Raniere is a swinging singles suburban orgy throwback, a prog rock doofus, who looks like he wandered out of a John Denver concert. He’s no Burt Reynolds in a Camaro despite the hairy chest, though they are both short. He is an intellectual lightweight, producing nothing of significance or substance. Deep down, I suspect Bouchey knows this, but cannot bring herself to admit it.
Nancy just forced Raniere to have sex with her daughters.
Because Nancy is a caring mom.
Are you new to FR? By now, I’d think you’d know that your first statement is fiction.
Nutjob,
It is called sarcasm and satire.
I guess I’m jaded. LOL Plus, you forgot your sarcasm font.
Let me get this straight…..what’s wrong with this picture?
Vanguard cons and lies over $1.5 bucks from her and she gets on national TV saying NXIUM was a great organization until DOS was formed in 2016-17?
Barbara Bouchey is a Koolaid drinking idiot.
Anonymous,
Barbara says she is not drinking the kool-aid……
……. she just injecting it.
from Dianne’s [recap](https://tonyortega.org/2019/06/11/nxivm-keith-ranieres-attorney-asks-sex-slave-witness-did-you-fantasize-about-rough-sex/#more-58650) of cross on The Underground Bunker:
“There was discussion about Frank Parlato, (of FrankReport, a blog that reports about Nxivm and DOS.) Nicole emailed him to take her off the site. Frank said she needed to call him first. Agnifilo: Did Frank pressure you about a civil lawsuit? Nicole: No. Agnifilo: Do you remember telling the FBI that Frank pressed you to file a civil suit against Nxivm? Nicole: No. Agnifilo: Did Frank pressure you to go to the FBI? Nicole:, wiping away tears: He was scaring me. He said he had my collateral. I thought, ‘Again? I have to go through this again? Someone else can’t be telling me they have my collateral!’. So I got a lawyer. “
Anything to say, Frank?
Nicole and others’ collateral was leaked to me. I immediately turned it over to law enforcement.
I told Nicole truthfully that I had her collateral and that I turned it over to law enforcement. I also encouraged her go tell the FBI about what happened to her because after talking to her I realized she was a crime victim. She did go to the FBI and told me she did afterwards. She never discussed what she told the FBI. We never spoke since she went to the FBI. The reason she called me originally was to ask me to remove her name from Frank Report and I did so. Removing her name was not contingent on her going to law enforcement and occurred well before she did go to the FBI to tell her story.
Frank,
You should ask the Bunker guys to put everything in context or ask if you can write your own rebuttal or explanation piece.
You don’t want BS like “this testimony that is taken out of context” from a victim under duress, on a witness stand, being harassed by a defense attorney, twisted into fake news.
Just issuing the truth on the Frank Report is not enough and I am sure you realize it.
Agnifiglio is in the habit of raising the FR and Mr. Parlato in his cross examination of prosecution witnesses. His client and paymaster have an obsessive compulsion to destroy their enemies. Frank is probably nxivm enemy No.1. Without him etc…
Imagine how much Raniere is probably bringing up Frank to his lawyers, as he’s the one most responsible for making NXIVM crash and burn. LOL
Dear Mr. Hypocrite,
You are taking the testimony of a young woman under duress out of context.
Nicole is under cross examination by Raniere’s defense attorney. She is upset and not talking coherently in lucid sentences.
If Frank was such an asshole do you think Catherine Oxenberg, Barbara Bouchey, Sarah Edmonson, and Heidi Hutchinson would remain quiet?
Not one former NXIVM member has said anything negative about Frank Parlato as far as I know.
It all depends on what meaning you ascribe to the word, “Good.”
If a rapist takes his victim out for a couple of glasses of champagne before he rapes her, can we say, “It wasn’t all bad, some of what he did was good?”
Jesus. Get a grip Barb.
Not everything was clouds, rainbows, and sunshine.
Wakeup Dummy! You were conned like everyone else!!!
When you are good and enter nxivm and start harming people you are guilty and have no excuse.