By Actaeon
Nicole testified that when Keith Raniere told her that if she left DOS, they would release her collateral.
She said she thought she had three options:
1. To get fully on board with DOS and Raniere.
2. To commit suicide
3. To go into the witness protection program, [disappear.]
Obviously, she had several more – simply calling their bluff being an obvious one. That is far more reasonable than committing suicide.
The option that pops into my mind is for her to tell her “friend”, Allison Mack, when they were alone and no witnesses present, that she was leaving the group and if her “collateral” got released, she knew where Allison lived, she had a gun and she knew how to use it.
Making threats is a two-way street. Let Allison figure out, “how she was going to fix this”, to use Raniere’s favorite line.
Continuing to work for this corrupt organization was the worst option. I realize it takes courage to leave such a group, the consequences can be dire, and it’s psychologically difficult. But when did we, as a society, begin expecting people to not be courageous? When did the default position become lack of courage (i.e. cowardice) in the face of threats?
Trigger warning: I feel a rant coming on…
We just celebrated the anniversary of D-Day. Judge Nicholas Garaufis made a fine speech in that very courtroom in commemoration of the Allied landing in Normandy. Now how many of those young men, many of them still in their teens, do I think really wanted to be there, plunging neck deep in cold salt water and wading through withering machine gun and artillery fire up a mined and wired beach?
Not exactly a “safe space”, Omaha Beach, on that fine June day. They didn’t volunteer for that duty. They were expected to be brave, expected to risk their lives, expected to advance up that beach. Just like all the millions of other men who fought in that war. And they didn’t consider themselves heroes, they didn’t consider themselves exceptional. (A lot of them probably considered themselves unlucky though for having to go in that first wave). That was what was expected of ordinary citizens not all that long ago; if you were male, you signed up for the draft, and if there was a war, well ‘you’re in the Army now.’
So when I see this attitude about she had no options, I die a little inside. Since when? She had no option but to collaborate? Because that’s what Nicole was, a collaborator. She was assisting Raniere and Nxivm because she was afraid. I have a lot of sympathy for her plight, but in all honesty, what is this but cowardice? To be honest, what else can it be called? Her life wasn’t at stake. Sure, it would be embarrassing, humiliating even, to have nude pictures of herself online. It could get back to her family, her friends. It might damage her chances of having an acting career (assuming anybody took notice, among all the porn already on the Internet).
I do understand Nicole’s plight. It likely seemed like the end of the world to her, how deep she was into their clutches. In truth, however, it was not the end of the world. “Seemed” is not “is”. And continuing to dig herself deeper in the hole she had gotten herself into was the poorest of poor choices.
And what about all the rest of the women? Why didn’t they mutiny? There they are, all together in Allison Mack’s living room or wherever, told to strip and pose for yet more humiliating pictures.
And they do, like sheep.
Honestly, isn’t there something kinda, I don’t know, CONTEMPTIBLE about that? Why not just say NO?
The whole lot of them, together. Maybe take the camera away from Allison and smash it, knock her on her ass, and the whole group march over to Keith’s house, wake him up and slap him around for a while.
Why not show some guts?
Why not be like this girl https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
“The right thing was done with the Japanese in the U.S., as the Japanese were fanatically loyal, unlike the Germans. Letting them run around the country in the WWII environment would have been foolish.”
– Scott Johnson
There’s no reply button on this comment attributed to you below, Scott. I know I’ve over commented on this thread but:
Your comment is a wartime justification mentality and your are spreading propaganda, rewriting history my friend.
The Japanese were not interned for their own good. I do know an elderly Japanese couple who were interned. Why don’t you try reading some of their actual stories? Or you can go visit the museum of tolerance in Los Angeles. There’s also a Japanese American museum in Little Tokyo. There are stories and actual pictures of the conditions in the interment camps — and it is not fake news.
Once you’ve educated yourself come back and share your sentiments. Instead of “hawk” propaganda and jack hammer politics that’ll get you banned from blogs these days with damn good reason. For beating everybody up over the head with your fake uneducated point of view.
Heidi, thanks for bringing this back up.
As I wrote in a response, way below somewhere in the initial discussion, I went back and double-checked the historical facts, and indeed the White House’s own internal reports concluded that the Japanese were no more of a threat than any other group – and that the few among them who could be identified as possibly disloyal, should be dealt with individually. But there ended up being public panic or even hysteria about them, based on prejudice against orientals – hard to believe, now what Asians are seen as the desirable if not even model immigrants – fueled by newspapers and various groups, and the government succumbed to demands for collective punishment.
People wonder how groups like NXIVM get away with false claims, and why members don’t look at them more critically, and yet we have an example in front of us of how baseless prejudice, rumor-mongering, and propaganda has been perpetuated over several generations and still persists.
Many law abiding, peaceful (and legal) Japanese-Americans were corralled into camps, and relieved of their personal and real property – never to be returned.
A deeply shameful interlude in American history, IMO.
Orange County Dreams,
Actually in Brazil during WWII a Japanese nationals spy ring sent radio messages to German submarines with the coordinates of allied supply ships, many allied supply ships were sunk because of the Japanese nationals spy ring. It’s an historical fact that the press in the interest of being PC gloss over.
The Japanese spy ring in Brazil is what triggered the racial profiling and internment camps in the United States.
The interment camps were wrong but not without a degree of reason.
The camps should never have happened.
Shadowstate probably knows this fact.
I 100% agree! What a great article! I think everyone should read it twice! This is gold.
“A former member of NXIVM spiritual leader Keith Raniere’s “master/slave” group testified at his criminal trial Monday that actress Allison Mack wanted her to sign a contract acknowledging the possibility of psychological injury, disfigurement, paralysis or death.”
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/DOS-slave-describes-dealings-with-NXIVM-s-13965623.php
“actress Allison Mack wanted her to sign a contract acknowledging the possibility of psychological injury, disfigurement, paralysis or death.”
And this was not a clue to Allison Mack that something is wrong with NXIVM DOS.
Allison is clearly the most clueless woman in the world.
All of your points are valid, but Nicole and her DOS ilk were already mentally impaired when they decided to join NXIVM in the first place. Anyone who believed Raniere’s world salad double speak was some sort of genius was already compromised and then they were ripe for the picking for DOS. Who chooses to hand over damaging evidence that can be used for their own blackmail? Someone who has muddled thinking.
Very good point about the sacrifices made by Americans to secure our freedoms.
Some thirty years ago I met one of my grandfather’s friends who had been a paratrooper on D-Day.
The Germans captured him and made him a POW.
To keep the POWs from escaping the camps the Germans took away their boots.
The Winter of 1944-1945 was very cold in Europe.
Walking around in ice and snow and cold without shoes or boots permanently damaged this man’s feet.
Over 40 years later this man had to travel over 30 miles to a VA Hospital to get shoes that would fit his damaged feet.
But this man was not bitter. He was thankful for the German woman who came by the camp with food for the prisoners.
Now compare that to these NXIVM women.
These self-proclaimed “Bad Ass Warrior Bitches.”
These women lack the backbone or courage to do what’s right for themselves and others.
First they allow themselves to be in a position where they can be blackmailed.
They entrust themselves to a slimy, reptilian woman named Allison Mack.
A woman who lies as easily as she breathes.
And when it is apparent to all that Mack is blackmailing them, they refuse to rebel and beat the crap out of her and march on Raniere with surgical equipment and remove this huckster’s family jewels.
There were plenty of draft dodgers during WWII.
Shadowstate your cherry picking your analogies and stories to suite your tastes and perspectives.
There are draft dodgers during every war. There are similar people who say they would like to be on a radio show, but then chicken out. Good thing there’s not been a draft for over four and a half decades, or you’d probably be talking about yourself in both of the above contexts. LOL
Shadowstate,
LOL you are 1/2 right.
I would have have followed the law and been in good company with the likes of Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Dick Cheney, and of course Mit Romney.
I would have shot for a legal College exemption, marriage exemption, or …..
……An illegal “flat foot”(medical) exemption like a certain president who’s doctor went on to have a rent free office and rent free apartment.
LOL
I wish I could share with you who my father was. My father spent the best years of his life fighting communism in the central highlands of Vietnam… My father was decorated in the field by General
Westmorland.
What did it get my father? My father is dead, and people that dodged the draft are held up like heros by the left and right.
Touché my sanctimonious friend Shadowstate!!!!!
really nice guy? my dad enlisted the day after pearl harbor and lied about his age to get in then threw away his glasses to join the airforce end of it ….
i dont know of any disserters enmass or dodgers til vietnam now THOSE BOYS went AWOL or hightailed to canada
That sort of thing got swept under the rug in the good old days – including the personal foibles of Presidents, even if they had illegitimate children (like Warren Harding – infamous for broader corruption that did get exposed).
A quick search turns up references to tens of thousands of draft evaders and deserters in World War II. Plus it’s hard to compare a popular war that seemed based on just principles and threats to our nation itself, with an unpopular one that made no sense to many people.
Faulty assumptions and false generalizations are typical in culty thinking.
Well AnoyMaker thank you.
Some people like to believe the “Good Old Days” or at least how they perceive the past to be.
I personally have always been disappointed with the past. All my historic heroes have never held up to scrutiny.
Google Chicky
No sensible person wants to go to war.
That said many young men, and now young women, sign up for military service.
Some out of patriotism.
Some out of economic necessity.
I will always honor those who risk their lives for higher purposes.
To defend Freedom or their country for example.
Or to defeat evil.
Those who talk tough like the NXIVM DOS warriors but do so for advancement in a cult or to avoid the consequences for allowing themselves to be vulnerable to blackmail are less deserving of honor.
And those who let Allison Mack blackmail them, if they had stood up to her in the first place, could have stopped Mack and Raniere in their tracks.
That’s right, Shadow. What I’ve noticed in LA is a ton of military recruitment going on in the poor, minority neighborhoods where there’s little choice left for young people who can’t afford college and a lot of Kardashian’s, etc. wanna-be’s in the rich neighborhoods where kids don’t seem to know their own dazed and confused asses (sorry to judge) from a hole in ground — figuratively speaking. And a lot of them are on psychotropic drugs for their behavioral issues. Sad.
Heidi,
What you describe is true all over the country.
Small towns in the South where the factories have closed long ago are still in a Great Depression.
And the opioid crisis has enriched companies like Purdue Pharma owned by the Sackler family who are big campaign contributors to the Clintons.
AMERICAN CARTEL: HERE ARE THE POLITICIANS THAT TOOK OPIOID TYCOONS’ ‘DIRTY, BLOODY MONEY’
https://dailycaller.com/2018/03/14/american-cartel-opioid-blood-money-sackler-family/
And America’s big cities like NYC and LA are starting to sport Latin American-style poverty.
Cool story Shadow. Not being sarcastic at all. Those soldiers of WW2 were awesome. Didn’t consider themselves heroes. They were just doing a job. And my hats off to them. I bet his gratitude got him through it. The prey of NXIVM were needy cowards to begin with. Mostly rich people looking for meaning in their lives. Not realizing that meaning in life comes from serving others and doing good. Rich or poor, that is how happiness is achieved. Instead, they threw their lot in with a guy who justifies doing horrible things “for an ethical cause”. If their heads were right to begin with, they would have detected early on that Keith was screwed up and self serving. The irony is these women were doing it to empower women. And doing the exact opposite. It is degrading to womanhood what these women were doing. I believe Keith hates females altogether.
Frank,
The death of Gina Hutchinson and the disappearance of Kristin Snyder need to be revisited by you, Letitia James, Kevin Clarkson and all other other relevant authorities.
Please.
That was a long time ago and there was very little evidence back then. Your time would be better spent on getting all of the Rainbow Cultural Garden schools shut down, because they are abusing CURRENT children.
Those and more, Jon. I see link-ups to NXIVM in at least a dozen deaths or near deaths and once we expand the pyramid from below Keith to the actual eye atop it — there’ll be more, I’m certain. I know there are 4 in my realm. I’ve been sharing as much info and knowledge as I can on here and with anyone whose interested in helping but I don’t want the kind of twists, misinformation and misuse of it I’ve been seeing on here and elsewhere. I’ve been careful not to draw conclusions from anything other than facts although I do consider informed opinions based on facts I know to be true.
That’s why it’s important for all of us to hold exclusive rights to our own material to find the truth and not allow misinformation and distraction particularly from the ill-intended. I do appreciate the opportunity to compare notes that this site generously affords us all w/o the pigeonholing that’s plagued FR from those with an often obvious agenda.
I have not given Frank or anyone the rights to my or Gina’s story and do not intend to.
so true jon knight but here is what i hear latitia james saying….. {quote}
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………..
I have done my best to encourage Attorney General James and Governor Cuomo to rise to the occasion and
display some courage.
Much of the legwork has already been done by the FBI.
It should not take too much courage to investigate sex traffickers, blackmailers, money launderers and con artists.
your efforts shadow are commendable its our AG James and Gov Cuomo who do not process the moral compass or the desire to grow a set a balls or else has special interest in continuing to look the other way {my guess they are all players with pay}
and remember wasnt andrewpandacuomohomo AG for NYS as well he knows the laws 2006 or so so he’s been especially lookin the other way for a very long time
Agree, Chicky. While Frank may not be a “relevant authority” as Jon KNIGHT classifies him, rather mockingly, Frank is helping us all do far more than any of those “authorities” to detoxify ourselves from Schlock or Mickey Mouse or McDonald’s poisoning.
I just wish he’d get the spinners out of the room and stop playing KING with our comments. I’m saving all mine before posting not out of any competitiveness but to circumvent redirects or ego plays and purity of my intent.
heidi … i may not know much but i do know the purity of your intent rings thru … like a bell
remember truth rises
I feel that if Nicole made any counter-threat (even in self defense), KAR would have called his trusty local law enforcement and had her arrested for one alleged crime or another.
Easy to say in retrospect, but I think I would rather a naked picture of me blare all over the internet than be a slave to these monsters.
Indeed. The testimonies paint a picture that these women were prisoners and victims of their own thoughts.
Confined to a room that was not locked, extreme dieting to reach a goal weight to have sex with a man that they didn’t want to have sex with, enduring punishments like cold showers that to my knowledge wasn’t witnessed but based on the honor system.
Considering suicide or disappearing to avoid the possibility of release of collateral that to date has never been a record of having happened. It also appears that some stood up to and argued back without any consequence.
Interesting to think of the scene if any one of them openly defied a “command”. It seems they could have been “problem child’s”, stayed with the group and have as good as they got without too much terror from the perpetrators. The perpetrators were cowardly themselves.
I would have claimed ignorance why my 500 calorie diet wasn’t working while eating a pizza feigning disappointment at not being of weight to receive Kieth’s love making prowess.
Lol
Dani did defy Raniere, when she showed up at a volleyball game. He ran and hid while his sycophants escorted her away. What a stud! LOL
Oh, really Orange? I think I’d rather “get the hell out of dodge” like our Dad and Gina would oft say. But it ain’t as easy to give ‘em the slip once you’re on their radar as you might suppose. Nicole was being logical and still using her intuition when she stated her realistic choices once they had her collateral and a small portion of her brain (figuratively speaking of course).
At least she didn’t list joining ISIS as an option. Or becoming a Buddhist nun in India.
Really?! “Just leave” when you are brainwashed?! This is what cults do to normal people, especially people that don’t have to deal with drama and deaths on their day to day lives. People that want to “better themselves” are at huge risk, If it were as easy as “just leave” it would not have gone this far.
I love Frank Report, and still do. But you gotta have some compassion for these rich skinny white chicks. Brainwashing is very powerful. And clearly the way to avoid joining a cult is proper nutrition. But easier said than done.
Brainwashing doesn’t exist. It isn’t real. It’s fictional, it’s a made up term invented in the 1950s to explain why good red-blooded American boys could become Communists.
Prove me wrong. Point me to the reputable, mainstream studies that show that ‘brainwashing’ is possible.
Actaeon, if it didn’t exist then why did all those people die at Jonestown?
Also, why is it when a lot of people repeat the word silk five times, and then are asked to spell it out followed by what do cows drink?
Milk?
Nope it’s of course water.
What do you put in a toaster?
Bread.
It’s funny how the mind works.
The people died in Jonestown because they believed the lies they were being told. Your simplistic examples mean nothing, you’re just a milquetoast [pun intended] kind of person who is determined to believe something that has been proven to be fake. FAKE NEWS! LOL
“The people died in Jonestown because they believed the lies they were being told.”
Isn’t that the same reason why we are here right now?
If not paint me your “more confident” picture of what actually happened Scotty?
Call it whatever the fuck you want. “Brainwashing” or “not brainwashing cause it’s a made up word”.
Bottom line is Scott actually has a part of his rude post that makes a correct point. The people died at Jamestown and Lauren/Allison etc. are going down with the Vanguard ship because of one main thing – they believed the lies they were being told.
I’m not rude, I’m just stating facts. If you are a melting snowflake, that’s YOUR issue, not mine.
Be as rude as you want to me. I usually at least partly deserve it when you are. LOL.
I have a problem when your rude comments chase away commenters or when the comments are cruel.
I am entertained (and a little surprised) at you being bothered by something as simple as me stating the obvious and calling one of your deliberately combative comments “rude”. In fact, maybe we should start poking around and getting to the bottom of this potential issue of yours?
Agree there’s no real brainwashing. They were all willing to be gullible. Hard to believe but it is true that you could find tens of thousands of followers like this.
Most were not followers, they just took a course or two and left, some of them probably went to Ramtha or another weird cult, there seems to be a revolving door among various similar organizations.
Hard to believe there are MILLIONS of followers of Jesus Christ, Mohammed, the Dalia Lama, The Virgin Mary + JC, ET AL, ETC. And, why, even that ol’ Devil Satan himself for all you rebel’s out there who have just had it with fairy tales and want some real results. …How’s that going for you? Luciferian’s? Satan putting any food in your kid’s mouths? Helping you win the lottery? You know the govt. gets a big cut of that — IF you’re the lucky winner, but you better be legal or you can’t collect.
So let’s just stone a couple of billionaire brats like Clair and Sara Bronfman and all the evil, (almost) Hollywood sexpots who shamed them, and their deranged fanboys who’d be the prime suspects if one of them disappeared…etc. And it’s all the fault of one American psycho who crossed the line. I just don’t know where Keith gets all the energy to keep it up while mesmerizing the whole shebang without any help from even his resident hypnosis, but that’s so ‘70’s it doesn’t exist anymore. Except in nightmares and fairytales…and DREAMS.
And that’s where McDonalds and a whole slew of poison behind it comes into play. We are either being fed like farm animals with poisoned farm animals) or starved like concentration camp or prison inmates even if to uphold an image. In the words of Steely Dan:
“We got your skinny girls, here in the Western World.”
Or, while we’re jammin’ how about a little “All we have to do, is take these lies and make them true. All we have to see, is I don’t belong to you and you don’t belong to me. Freedom, freedom, you got to give what you take!”
George Michael.
Can’t YouTube it at the moment but hope you get the drift.
I’m pretty sure that Raniere was constantly using covert hypnosis. Nancy Salzman is heavily into NLP, which is 90% covert hypnosis.
“Frail of heart renounce all fear.
Locked away inside all these years.
Remain in light, renounce all fears.
For you have been mesmerized.
Break this spell of silence.
Songwriters: Brendan Michael Perry / Gus Ferguson / James E. Pinker / Lisa Germaine Gerrard / Peter Lawrence Ulrich / Scott Rodger
Mesmerism lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group
❤️
I get your point – but that’s also kind of easy to say, from the perspective of an outsider and in hindsight.
These were people who probably weren’t strong critical thinkers and problem solvers, either by nature or in the situations they were in – and Raniere made sure to put them in circumstances where it was hard for them to think clearly, such as under sleep and food deprivation, and where they felt under all sorts of pressures.
As I pointed out in another comment, they apparently weren’t the sort of people to even think of the basic problem solving approach of seeking expertise, such as to consult an attorney – regarding such points as to whether or not their collateral could really be released, or an injunction could be sought to prevent its release. I’m not entirely sure about NXIVM in particular, but some high control groups or cults really appeal to a curious type of American amateurism, including the idea that professional training is somehow even an impediment to coming up with good solutions – thus you end up with the sort of people who would rather look up alternative remedies on the internet, than see a doctor, the sort of thing that is typical in groups like Scientology (which is actually virtually anti-scientific).
I’ve had my hard knocks in life, I’ve been bullied and browbeaten just like everyone else. I don’t think of myself as at all brave or physically capable or anything else. I understand, again just like everybody else, about psychological pressure and economic pressures. I’ve had a knife pulled on me and I had an experience with ‘Chester the molester’ as a little kid. I don’t think I’m particularly strong mentally, I haven’t had much of an education, I went to public school in a depressed city that had lost its major industry. God knows I can identify. God knows I can sympathize.
But my god I read this testimony of Nicole’s, putting up with all this shit and acquiescing. She was apologizing to Mack– who had lied to her, entrapped her, blackmailed her– even after the DOS/Nxium scam had begun to implode. Even after she had been told her ‘collateral’ wouldn’t be released she still FELT AMBIVALENT about leaving DOS. “What about your commitment? You gave your word!” I read this testimony in utter disbelief. What the holy f**k did Nicole think she owed Allison Mack? Mack f**king had her BRANDED for chrissake! And then she feels like she has to tell Keith– the man who raped her, enslaved her, the man whose initials are branded on her pussy– that she’s leaving, and why! I mean, what the holy f**k?!
Throughout my long life of had knocks I have somehow managed to retain my ability to say NO. Everyone else that I know, many of whom have had it a lot rougher than I, have also had that ability. Always. Maybe I travel in strange circles, I dunno. But seriously, reading this testimony by DOS initiates it’s like I’m reading tales from an alien civilization. What the hell is wrong with these people? Why did they put up with it? Why didn’t Nicole tell Allison to go screw herself? Punch the bitch in the nose, if it came to that? If somebody pushes me around, I’m sure as hell going to push back. Every woman I know would do it, so it’s not a gender thing.
What, they were all brainwashed? Bullshit. There is no such thing as brainwashing. Anyone who thinks different, point me to reputable studies that prove “brainwashing” is real. The victims of Nxivm/DOS are real victims, I feel sorry for them, and Raniere and his lieutenants need to do serious prison time. Prison is the proper place for people who victimize the weak.
As you rightly point out, these weren’t critical thinkers or the sort of people to think things through. They weren’t good at problem solving. I’ll go further: they were weak willed. They were gullible. They were fools, they were lemmings, they were sheep. They’ve got no more sense than god gave a grasshopper. They were born victims with a target taped to their back. They had obviously been dropped on their heads as babies and weren’t fit to be let out in public alone.
Look, I’m sorry if this comes off as a bit… harsh. I’m not attacking you. I enjoy reading your posts and you’re one of the more thoughtful people on this site. I’m just truly perplexed: at what point did everyone start assuming that it’s okay to be a victim, unable to take care of oneself, irresponsible, incapable, and weak? And what the f**k is going to become of this country if the sh*t truly hits the fan and we have another World War or Great Recession? Because these people who got themselves involved with Nxivum couldn’t find their own asses with both hands.
“She said she thought she had three options:”
THOUGHT is the key word in this sentence and it’s about the only one I agree with in this post.
The info you’re missing in your Act here is the fact that the girls WERE mind conditioned to BELIEVE that those were their ONLY options.
From human traffickers to “control freak” partners, manipulators lock their victims down mentally and emotionally more so than physically.
Why aren’t seemstresses in sweatshops or field workers bent over hand-pick harvesting in oppressive heat just saying “no” or, as you suggest, fighting their way out of their circumstances with brute force?
They are sometimes put in life or death situations.
Why don’t the suckers at least ASK for more, like “Oliver Twist,” dares to in fiction?
KAR used all the methods of oppression that traditional “lords” of yore used to enslave and then some. These have only become better honed and facilitated in modern times through modern technology and knowledge of how the human mind works.
Plus, IMHO, there is evidence that this whole NXIVM operation was aided by large scale crime cartel syndicates.
Keith was just skimming the cream of the crop for himself.
Did she get that camera for free by posting a Sexy Seven video ? Tee Hee!
My sentiments exactly. Who got the pictures to possibly pixelate for further use in the bigger picture? Know anything about that Jeff Apple? Tee hee.
The song at the end is just like the commenters on this website, they TALK tough but then don’t DO tough.
Actually, a lot of the men did want to be on Omaha beach and many of them volunteered to be in the military, because they wanted to defeat the evil Nazis. Many of them even lied how old they were in order to enter the military. Those were the days when men were men. Now most people don’t even use their real names or a traceable fake name to post comments on this website. No, that would take too much “courage.” Cowardice is the right word.
So why are you sitting on your ass 24/7 harassing everyone online who has an opinion that differs from yours, Schlock? I’m sure no one would miss you except the alias’ on here who pretend to support both your chavenist views and bully methods as much in their own selfish interests as are yours. You are dumbing down this blog at the very least. So strap on your gear and get in on the action — I’m sure you can find a war somewhere that could use an asshole big as yours to at least store some ammo up it.
Because I already served and I’m not even eligible to rejoin, I’m too old. But I’m doing a LOT to put Amway and other MLM scams out of commission. Back to your meds, Heidi. You missed a dose. Or two.
LOL. Leave Scott alone. He’s still regrouping after his grand twitter plan was squashed.
🤣. And he thinks it was ALL his plan bc he was Trump before Trump was Trump.
Plenty of Americans are still willing to volunteer for dangerous military service.
I don’t buy the “good old days” nostalgia, particularly being a student of history, and especially interested in aspects such as in-depth sociological studies. Many things were more the same than people tend to think, and others were different in ways that weren’t necessarily good – people were less well informed (including significantly less educated – the military had major problems with significant numbers of illiterate recruits) and perhaps even in some ways more gullible, so that for instance they could be fired up based on crude propaganda claiming that Germans (or Japanese) were savages.
It was also the era when, for instance, it was much easier to round up a lynch mob to defend the white race, and go after a negro who had supposedly looked at a white woman the wrong way. Somewhat related to the topic at hand, there was also insidious discrimination based on beliefs, not only against Jews, but even against Catholics,especially those from Southern and Eastern Europe.
AnnoyMaker,
“they could be fired up based on crude propaganda claiming that Germans (or Japanese) were savages.”
The Japanese committed incredible atrocities in China as well as Korea and the Philippines. Remember Bataan Death March?
The Germans committed atrocities all over Europe. Including starving US pows.
The Germans and Japanese soldiers during World War II were savages.
You should read more history….
I’m pretty well versed in history, and understand that there are many factors that have to be considered – which is kind of the point. I put Japanese in parentheses because it is a fraught example – but the propaganda against them as a people was overly broad and dehumanizing, and helped lead to the unjust and inhumane treatment of peaceful and largely patriotic Japanese-Americans stateside.
More relevant to the topic at hand, generalization and the denigration of others are typical tools of high control groups or cults, often using techniques similar to the war propaganda of the supposed “good old days.”
The right thing was done with the Japanese in the U.S., as the Japanese were fanatically loyal, unlike the Germans. Letting them run around the country in the WWII environment would have been foolish.
Scott, every historical account I’ve ever read has found that there was not even the slightest actual basis for the claims of Japanese-American disloyalty used to justify their internment.
Many of the Japanese were in fact such loyal Americans, that they volunteered for military service out of the camps, in spite of not being eligible for the draft. About two dozen were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, our nation’s highest award for heroic military service.
I knew an elderly couple who had met as young internees; he had volunteered for combat service in the war as soon as he was old enough. They were some of the finest Americans you could ever meet.
I’m always concerned with questions of historical accuracy, so I went back and checked with regards to the treatment of Japanese-Americans during World War II.
The Munson report that was submitted to the White House on October 7, 1941 noted a high degree of loyalty among Japanese-Americans and concluded that “There is far more danger from Communists and people of the Bridges type on the Coast than there is from Japanese.” After Pearl Harbor, the subsequent Ringle Report on Japanese Internment requested of Naval Intelligence and delivered in early 1942 endorsed the Munson Report, and concluded:
“That, in short, the entire “Japanese Problem” has been magnified out of its true proportion, largely because of the physical characteristics of the people; that it is no more serious that the problems of the German, Italian, and Communistic portions of the United States population, and, finally that it should be handled on the basis of the individual, regardless of citizenship, and not on a racial basis.”
The US government went ahead and interned those with as little as 1/16 Japanese descent, largely to assuage unjustly biased public opinion, stoked by hysteria.
AnoyMaker.
Gotcha understood
I think what you’re describing AM can best be summed up as: “Divide and Conquer.”
This describes Raniere and his victims perfectly.
“Beastie” by Jethro Tull
From early days of infancy, through trembling years
of youth, long murky middle-age and final hours
long in the tooth, he is the hundred names of terror —
creature you love the least. Picture his name before
you and exorcise the beast.
He roved up and down through history — spectre
with tales to tell. In the darkness when the
campfire’s dead — to each his private hell. If you look
behind your shoulder as you feel his eyes to feast, you
can witness now the everchanging nature of the beast.
Beastie
If you wear a warmer sporran, you can keep the foe at
bay. You can pop those pills and visit some
psychiatrist who’ll say — There’s nothing I can do
for you, everywhere’s a danger zone. I’d love to help
get rid of it, but I’ve got one of my own.
There’s a beast upon my shoulder and a fiend upon
my back. Feel his burning breath a heaving, smoke
oozing from his stack. And he moves beneath the
covers or he lies below the bed. He’s the beast upon
your shoulder. He’s the price upon your head. He’s
the lonely fear of dying, and for some, of living too.
He’s your private nightmare pricking. He’d just love
to turn the screw. So stand as one defiant — yes, and
let your voices swell. Stare that beastie in the face
and really give him hell.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZMmyLqHHM
Actaeon – Perhaps Nicole and the other DOS slaves feared more than their collateral being released and didn’t know how far KAR would go. Imprisonment? Even murder? I doubt that on a DOS diet and sleep deprived, they were thinking logically.
Exactly. It was more than just nude pictures. It was damaging information/lies about their families. “Things they would sooner die” than have released. Also, in some cases— and I believe in Nicole’s specifically— where she promised a million dollars (or something like that) worth of their property and belongings. She was in it for a year, and they were required to give collateral at least once a month— not counting the numerous awful pictures. We don’t know what her collateral was, but it was way more than some nude photos! Come on! How can you judge or call someone stupid without knowing what was specifically at risk! We don’t know. And as outsiders, it’s easy to say they should have done this, or that.. really easy without knowing the whole story. If she’s thinking of committing suicide, it must’ve been pretty serious.
and folks were driven to suicide in this mix more than one? not organic but desparate walking thin lines within
Nice, Pyriel! Of course, if everyone were giving hell to each other or themselves instead of the “Untouchable” unspeakable (especially in this case so far) beast that breeds fear. loathing and deceit, the beast would rise and thrive and rule while the rest of us live in the hell we make for ourselves and each other.
I say get the beast but let the humans laugh and feast. Pass the mustard seeds of faith, compassion and love. Disarm the beast. But I’m sure National Rifle Association and a few other beastly servants would disagree. 🙊🙉🙈
They were thinking logically past the point that it was in their own best interests.
When that feeling of fear or danger — something just didn’t smell right — first arose, flight or fight would be a natural, physiological response. But that was suppressed by all the “love bombing” and happy-talk and promised empowerment training and rationale, including being admonished to use LOGIC to continually ignore their dreams and nightmares and self-interests. And become the “image of” the VanGod they worshipped
I’m hearing rumblings that many former students from Mexico (and their parents) would like to provide VanCrook some payback, lead, and a short rope.
The smelly one may be safer in prison now than on the outside.
Interesting if that’s true – which wouldn’t surprise me.
I suspect that this case, and all the sensational publicity, are sealing NXIVM’s fate in Mexico as well. As we saw in Dani’s testimony, much of the lure of NXIVM was the aura around the guru, the supposed incredibly intelligent and advanced human being – who is now revealed as a just a petulant manipulator, and a crude sex-obsessed adolescent inside. NXIVM probably also carried the cachet of being a US thing, with its celebrities, and that is all in tatters as well.
A few diehards will likely hang on in the US and Mexico, but I think that it may be hard even for them to keep it up for very long, as their supposedly brilliant leader has become literally a laughing stock in court, exposed for atrocities and obscenities they hardly dare associate themselves with. They can try to really distance themselves, but then it essentially becomes something different, and lacking a charismatic leader, they are likely to either fade back into normal lives, or find some other guru to follow.
Keith Raniere did not nor does he rule Mexico, contrary to popular belief here in the US, apparently. 🤣. He only made a few hundred thousand DOLLARS for his contribution to an Anima production. He was/is a $$$ laudrymat owned by one of the King’s henchmen.
Every crime boss and every gang leader knows that nobody can become a full member until they’ve carried out a big enough crime. “Go cut off some dudes finger and bring it to me.” “Who’s finger? “It doesn’t matter, just bring me a finger.” It’s the currency of transgression. The crime has to be one that *everybody* knows is wrong. After a while, it doesn’t seem wrong. It’s just what you do. All of those acts are violently corrosive to the human spirit/psyche. They are the things you can’t come back from. There’s no way back for Allison Mack.
Too many fingers.
I disagree. Allison, anyone, can come back if they find guidance and support from those truly interested in their best interests including applying themselves to that effort as well. Could be fun for Allison and all the NX victims to rediscover themselves. Even if they have to serve some time it shouldn’t be as a “sacrifice” for the people and forces who contributed to her corruption. THOSE are the crooks I’m after. By necessity of self-preservation at the moment.
In organized crime that’s becoming a “Made Member.”
And Allison Mack as a self-proclaimed “movie-obssesor” is almost certainly familiar with the Godfather movies.
Allison MackVerified account
@allisonmack
story-teller, question-asker, music-lover, theatre-goer, movie-obsessor,
One of the scenes in the Godfather movies was filmed in the bar of the St. George Tower of Brooklyn where Ms. Mack had her Brooklyn apartment.
The famous “Luca Brasi sleeps with fishes” part of The Godfather was filmed in the once famous and glamorous bar of the St. George.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_St._George
You have to remember they were on diets of 500 calories and brainwashed. Not so easy to take action from what’s going on inside you. Some time ago a woman posted that she left one of those meetings to sell her computer, and she ate a piece of chocolate cake, and with the sugar and calories suddenly she “woke up” from that lethargy she was in and saw everything clearly. Psychological manipulation and domination are the scariest and the most misunderstood. Just ask the women going through home violence.
Low calorie diets and sleep deprivation have been used by every tin pot dictator and despot in history. Most of a persons calorific intake goes to fuel the brain. Drastically restrict the calories, and it goes into “basic housekeeping only” mode, and you can forget analytical thinking and problem solving. Add in the sleep deprivation, and you’re inflicting damage that will probably have lasting effects.
Actaeon, you have a certain lack of empathy. Or you are very young in life experience….
Val,
Acteon suffers from Hubris-itis
Anyone that reads to much Greek Mythologies and/or Greek Tragedy risks developing Hubris-itis.
Once an individual reaches the final stage of Hubris-itis the individual fatally develops Icarus Syndrome.
Sadly Acteon will probably suffer from pretension for the rest of his life even if he does not develop full blown Icarus Syndrome.
If you see a nerdy virgin white guy on fire falling from the sky it could be Acteon.
I just wanted to repeat and reiterate what I said in my other post, just cuz I fucken want to.
Actaeon claims that women in DOS could easily have left at any time, but they didn’t have the GUTS or COURAGE.
Yet Actaeon lacks the courage to post a simple comment using his real name, which is a lot less painful than having collateral being held by somebody threatening to release it.
Thus, Actaeon is a bigger coward than the women he seeks to label as cowards. 🙂
Lauren is not a coward and if she ever gets her huge Pinocchio-nose fixed with plastic surgery, she’ll finally be able to find a suitable husband and live a happy life.
BangTard or Acteon ,
Finally you made comment I can get behind 😉
Acteon if your not such a coward post your real name. Bangkok and I are 2 chicken shits and would never post are real names.
********
Bangkok I hope Lauren Salzman gets that nose job and recognizes you for the enlightened young sage that you are.
Perhaps one day you will the same joy Vanguard did behind Lauren’s camel curtains.
Enjoyed agreeing with you Bangdong!
Now fuck off loser!!! 😉
“suitable husband and happy life” are not mutually exclusive.
What’s with the fixation on Lauren’s nose?
I see Nicole more as those guys who joined the army before the draft during Vietnam, thinking it was a way to get away from whatever their issues were and do something that might help them.
Then they were in a jungle slogging around in pointless exercises taking ground that didn’t matter in a conflict that was not anything like what had been sold. Some of them did things in those circumstances that in normal life they’d never, ever have been capable of. They could have simply sat down and refused to cooperate, too. It would have meant dishonorable discharge and court martial, but in real time I don’t think it felt like an option.
Nicole was doing what a lot of young actors do — trying to find a way into the business by making contacts and developing relationships with people already established there. It was her bad luck that her boyfriend was in NXiVM, but imo the place she should have decided to completely balk and get the hell out was the day Allison Mack asked for “collateral.”
She went along, I guess, because Allison Mack was a star and keeping her as a friend and mentor felt like a very critical thing. The hot/cold nature of their relationship seems to have worked as a powerful destabilizing force … just enough sugar to keep you swallowing the poison.
What I don’t get is why Allison did any of this in the first place. She seems insane to me.
—just enough sugar to keep you swallowing the poison.
It’s amazing how that works when you trust someone famous you thought had your positive interest in mind.
Next thing you know, over ten years of your life is wasted and pissed down the drain.
I agree with you, Allison seems completely insane, she has lost all discernment. She became a fanatic, and fortunately the scandal broke if not who knows how far she could have gone.
Interesting comparison.
If I recall, there were men who refused to fight, who ended up in prison stockades under deliberately awful conditions intended to make being back out in the jungle almost an attractive alternative.
Various sorts of social pressures are definitely part of combat psychology, from not wanting to letting colleagues down, to not wanting to be seen as a coward by family and friends.
The draft was in effect from 1940 until 1973. More men were called up during the Vietnam War. Mack did this because she is evil.
the unfortunate boys in vietnam were all strung out on heroine or psychotopic drugs lsd etc etc …
drugs prevalent in this mix just curious ?
There’s been no evidence of drug use among NXIVM people. Plenty of dangerously low calorie intake and lack of sleep that ended with similar results – the inability to think clearly.
“During the Vietnam War, about two-third of American troops were volunteered, the rest were selected for military service through the drafts.
Most of U.S. soldiers drafted during the Vietnam War were men from poor and working-class families. The least political power sections were mistreated. … American forces in Vietnam included twenty-five percent poor, fifty-five percent working-class, twenty percent middle-class men, but very few came from upper-classes families.”
https://thevietnamwar.info/vietnam-war-draft/
Geezer here. That’s exactly how I remember it playing out. As AnonyMaker points out, there were men who refused to fight, just as — eventually — there were women who refused to go along with the ugly nonsense Allison Mack was trying to force upon them. But I can easily imagine how the social pressures + the collection of “collateral” + the promised rewards combined to make it very difficult to resist.
Another example of this kind of conditioning might be a young person chosen and groomed by a priest. Every small step leads toward a target that the manipulator knows but the target does not, and once those steps have been taken, they become collectively something so shameful that the need to hide it is stronger than the desire to get away. And so they keep going, until the day that they’re completely compromised and cut off in their own minds from all routes of escape.
That’s something like what happened to Nicole. Did she participate? Sure. Should she have known better? Easy for me to say.
Since she is evil, then Scott answers this, because someone who is EVIL and therefore wants to do evil, would let Nicole go and seek to harm her in some way, in retaliation for leaving the ship, someone evil would not have compassion with the deserters, I really believe more in the theory of the religious fanatic and if we add to this all the indoctrination methods implemented by KAR we get a well-sewn jihadist
Just enough sugar to keep swallowing the poison, exactly! Look at this story, and how these cyber sex-slaves escaped their captors, there was no cool aid involved. https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/06/09/asia/north-korea-defectors-intl-hnk/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F
Why not show some GUTS, you say?
…Says the guy who uses a fake name to post cuz he’s too fucken CHICKENSHIT to SHOW SOME GUTS and use his real name. 🙂
You’re a pathetic hypocrite and a sleaze bag.
BTW: Pointing out that I also use a fake name doesn’t prove JACK SHIT, asshole. I never said I wasn’t a hypocrite. I embrace the fact that I am. That’s what makes me better than you.
If you’re gonna say the same shit over and over, at least be entertaining about it. 🙂
Bangdong,
You are indeed a rebel without a cause.
I can only hope one day you learn the carnal knowledge of Lauren Salzman’s purple Face-hugger™.
Maybe she will even peg you with her beak.
Love you so right i feel sorry for all those women but i am a very confident women raised buy a italian parent to do good always very strict parebt but glad becsuse i believe it starts wirh are up bringing i saw no imore again mt heart goes out to those women