[Editor’s note: The opinions of Shadow State are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Artvoice or its publisher Frank Parlato. They are published here in the interest of free speech and open debate. Readers’ responses are welcome.]
By Shadow State
The relevant passages of Mark Vicente’s testimony about Allison Mack should be discussed:
Vicente: “I remember when she (Allison) was going to be promoted, I remember saying … ‘are you serious, that’s insane. There’s something not stable about her. ”
My response:
From the beginning Allison Mack had serious mental health issues. These issues exist without Keith Raniere doing anything. I have discussed in some detail Ms. Mack’s narcissism.
Shadow: Allison Mack is complex
Shadow: Allison Mack may be easy to manipulate but that does not absolve her of her many crimes
Narcissist Personality Disorder is marked by:
1.Lack of Empathy towards others.
2. Lack of Boundaries in personal behavior
3. A craving for adoration.
Prisons are packed with people who suffer from psychological disorders.
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“Q: Did Allison Mack get along with your wife?
A: At the beginning, I think, yes. Later, not so much.”
:”And she (my wife Bonnie) also had concerns about Allison’s… psychology, about her… erratic behavior and whether she … would be able to lead well.”
“And then he began to elicit from each person two different things. He basically had Allison admit that she… hated my wife, was trying to destroy her. Was very jealous of her”
” that what she done was a real problem and that she needed to really look into herself and fix this — this impulse that she has to destroy another woman. You know that has to be fixed. So … the way I remembered ending was basically [Allison] she has to go fix this.”
My response: Many people knew about Allison’s personality disorders and erratic behavior.
So much was known about Allison’s erratic behavior that she earned the nickname “Ally Wack.
Catherine Oxenberg wrote in the book “Captive” that Mack would wake up at 2 AM at night screaming bloody murder and could only calm down by going on long walks until dawn.
—————————————————————————–
“Q: Did India have a relationship with Allison Mack?
A: She would come to have a relationship when she spent more time at Albany. She… ended up being tutored by Allison Mack, or Allison Mack took a particular interest in her and took her under her wing…. I had a lot of concerns about that.”
Q: I think you mentioned that you had some important concerns about India’s relationship with Allison Mack?
A: Well, I was very concerned with what happened … I saw with India was that she became enamored with Allison Mack. The kind of enamor where you don’t just admire someone because they were skilled, [but] like ‘fall in love’ with Allison Mack, ‘you are my everything’.
And I said to myself, ‘something’s unhealthy about that. I don’t know that it’s healthy for her to look at Allison Mack as some kind of… deity who knows all.’ Knowing Allison… I didn’t think that Allison should necessarily be mentoring young women, so yeah, I had concerns.
Q: You discuss those concerns with the defendant?
A: I did.
Q: What did you say?
A: I remember saying something like, ‘I don’t think that she [India] should be mentored by Allison. I don’t think it’s healthy. I think Allison has a series of issues that I’m concerned with and I don’t think she should be teaching India or some of the other people.’
Q: What was the defendant’s response?
A: I don’t recall specifically. I do remember him saying something like, ‘you know, well it’s not really my concern.’…
My Response:
I apologize to Catherine Oxenberg for what I am about to say but the facts are clear: Any shame in this sorrowful episode belongs on Allison Mack’s shoulders, not India’s.
These passages demonstrate that Allison Mack enjoyed the services of India Oxenberg as a sex slave.
NXIVM DOS was not only designed for Raniere’s benefit, but also to serve Allison Mack’s sexual desires. Allison Mack should be ashamed of herself.
India Oxenberg is an impressionable young woman and Allison Mack as a mentor exploited the love and respect that India had for her. Allison Mack used and abused India Oxenberg. Allison Mack is a perpetrator.
Allison Mack is a mentally unbalanced woman who can not put her own life together and Allison Mack has no business mentoring anyone. Allison Mack is like the lesbian gym teacher who abuses the young women she is supposed to be coaching.
—————————————————————————————–
Q: So could you describe this conversation with Kayla?
A: She told me that at a certain point she had seen a vow on Allison Mack’s computer. The vow was to Raniere, vowing in essence that she would never leave. And that if she ever did, she would give up … any children she had to him and all her possessions. So it was some kind of a life-long vow.
When I heard that from her [Kayla], I was extremely disturbed…. this seemed extreme. Of course, I was very concerned.
Q: Did this type of vow that you described, did it appear to be different from the other vows that you were familiar with in NXIVM?
A: It was much more extreme. In essence giving up your children, giving up all your worldly possessions. It disturbed me.
My response:
Allison’s vow to give up her children sounds like something from an old European children’s tale.
It sounds like the story of Rumpelstiltskin.
Rumpelstiltskin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin
No man, even one as demented as Keith Raniere, would demand a woman’s children as tribute.
Sometimes husbands and wives fight over child custody but both already have a relationship with the children.
THIS EXTREME PLEDGE SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE COME FROM ALLISON MACK’S EXTREME MIND.
In a later post, I will discuss this issue of pledging one’s children as “collateral in more detail and in a different context.
BUT PLEASE MAKE THIS NOTE: AS FAR AS IS KNOWN, KEITH RANIERE DID NOT DEMAND THIS KIND OF COLLATERAL FROM ANYONE ELSE.
I believe the idea of pledging one’s children to Raniere came from Allison Mack herself. No sane woman would pledge her children as collateral. Allison Mack is NOT sane.
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This is clearly written by Keith Raniere in an attempt to shift the blame and discredit Mack, in case she ever decides to speak out. Obviously Mack lost her mind for while, but KR spent years indoctrinating and starving her.
Before believing anything on this site, read up on narcissists and the way they turn on the people they used, when they are no longer needed. This guy is textbook – and I really hope the remaining loyalists finally break the spell.
You need to be locked up for your own safety, mate.
The only one with issue here is you Shadow…I knew her before Nxivm and she was perfectly sane.
It’s a fact that it is a demand from Raniere…She didn’t had any control anymore.
You hate her so much (for no Reason! you Don’t know her and you Don’t care…your Reason are absolutely inexistant) that even with proof, you refuse to admit that you are wrong about her.
Nevermind that , nobody cares about your insane position.
But remember that if you go too far with your fake accusation, i’ll gladly make you fall down…You love to point the laws and how virtuous you are but the reality is that you are a criminal yourself with your extreme accusations.
And you love your Ally so much that you continually make false assertions to defend her.
We have yet to hear testimony to clarify what her role in DOS was, and to what extent she was manipulated as versus being a perpetrator herself. But you continually ignore what evidence we do have that raises uncomfortable questions about her role as the chief slavemistress, such as her name being on the Dropbox account used to collect the slaves’ collateral, or her working to get women in under a combination of false pretenses and coercion, and then overseeing their branding as some screamed and begged for it to stop.
Whatever you may have thought you knew about her was obviously based on superficial impressions of an actress, as for instance you’re unable to shed any light on her long term relationship with her manipulative and abusive first fiancee.
You and Shadow make a perfect couple of opposites.
The only one(s) making false assertions are you and shadowstate.
We have heard quite a few testimony and NONE ARE AGAINST ALLISON.
ALL SAY THAT SHE WAS A NOBODY.
Yet, you continue with your hatred blindfold.
You know Nothing and think whatever you want…as long as your agenda (destroying Allison) is fullfilled.
I Don’t have to state/prove my relation with Allison anymore as people involved with the case are proving my point since the beginning.
BTW, talking about proofs…Where are you proofs for all the accusation you constantly throw against Allison-
Because i only hear accusation but when you should prove your point, there is no one.
“as for instance you’re unable to shed any light on her long term relationship with her manipulative and abusive first fiancee.”
Oh i could shed a light but why would i do it- because you ask so nicely-
Because you just want to accuse Allison of all the worst in the world-
IT’S HER PRIVATE LIFE , LOW LIFE…I Don’t have to tell you anything i know , i tell what i want (i think i clearly stated that before)
And it happens that the little i gave is confirmed Everyday in the case. But that is unacceptable for you!
Allison MUST be a monster. ‘So please, someone, give us Something dirty on her…if not,i’ll insult your intelligence by putting any logic at bay and turn everything around to make sure Allison isn’t seen for what she really is (a victim) but as what i like to think she is , a monster’…
You are ridiculous and no matter how hard you try, only an few here still give you credit. You Don’t know when to stop (nor critical thinking) and just transform EVERYTHING into Something against Allison.
Man you need to get over your hatred for Allison its getting beyond a joke, you are obsessed with calling her evil. Did she turn you down at some point for you to have such hatred towards her
No kidding. I don’t spend this much time obsessing about my actual ex girlfriends.
Shadowstate,
Allison Mack is insane-
No shit Keith Raniere was trying to “break” her. Probably the same way he did to Gina Hutchinson.
In fact I am sure that Keith Raniere drove Gina to suicide. The anonymous post on the old blog Sarasota in decline taken with Vincete’s testimony leaves no doubt in my mind that Gina was purposely driven to suicide.
Where is your humanity Shadowstate-
****
Allison Mack is a sexual predator-
Shadowstate how can you possibly draw that kind of conclusion from the testimony of Mark Vincete-
You are so far out in left field you are on the dark side of the moon Shadowstate.
Keith Raniere was trying to “break” Allison Mack. The same way he broke Heidi Hutchinson’s sister Gina.
Shadowstate your are definitely more Old Testament than New Testament. You may want to change religions.
Why did I call Allison Mack a Narcissist-
Because a NXIVM insider called her a narcissist right here in the pages of the Frank Report.
Full run down on top players of NXIVM by former member
April 18, 2018
By Someone Who Dealt with Them
“3] Allison Mack is a narcissist and disgusting human being.
Crimes: Immigration fraud, tax evasion, assault, sexual assault, rape, extortion, fraud, and possibly about 10 other things.
Interesting fact: Allison wasn’t completely sold on NXIVM in her first few days of it.”
https://frankreport.com/2018/04/18/full-run-down-on-top-players-of-nxivm-by-former-member/
This story spurred me to investigate Narcissist Personality Disorder.
And if you; read from Mark Vicente’s testimony he mentions that NXIVM tested its members for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Presumably people scoring high in Narcissism were advanced to leadership positions.
“He recounted how he found out that the “Psychological Profile” that each participant had to fill-out on the first day of every intensive session was, in fact, a copy of a survey on Narcissistic Personality Disorder that had been developed by someone other than Keith Raniere and Nancy Salzman.”
https://frankreport.com/2019/05/10/mark-vicente-in-depth-review-part-i/
It is no accident that Allison Mack rose so rapidly through the ranks of NXIVM.
She had the personality that Keith Raniere and Nancy Salzman were looking for.
Every accusation you make is a confession KR.
Wether sane or insane, she needs to be in a safe place far away from anything or anyone to do with NXIVM. That will be tough, because the nearest thing she has to friends are people in the cult. So it’s a rebuild from the bottom up process. It will take years. She’s done some very bad things, but I doubt she would have done them outside of the madness of NXIVM. I believe that she should pay the price for what she’s done, but I also hope that she can undo the brainwashing she was put through, and can become a person who can find a way of fitting into an ordinary life. I don’t like to say it, but I think she needs to go to prison for long enough to really understand how she got there. Cults are all about being ‘special.’ Special leader, special follower, but she needs to become as ordinary as the rest of us. Ordinary is OK.
I have a gut feeling that Allison may have Dependent Personality Disorder
.
https://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/dependent-personality-disorder
It is often accompanied by Borderline Personality Disorder.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/#.XOBsfaTTVXY
According to this article in Psychology Today, an extreme diet can have psychological effects. Excerpts from https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201103/dieting-can-make-you-lose-your-mind :
“One of the most famous calorie-restriction studies was done on conscientious objectors during World War II by Dr. Ancel Keys. 36 healthy young men who had been excused from armed service for ethical objections agreed to a year long diet of sorts. ”
” . . . in addition to their restricted diet, they were required to walk 22 miles a week. All their food was prepared in a dormitory kitchen, and once the starvation began, each man’s calories were adjusted every Friday to meet a weight loss goal of 2.5 lbs (1.1 kg) per week. Their average daily calories during the semistarvation period was about 1600 calories a day (they ate approximately 3200 calories daily before the study).”
“What was it like for them- Well, horrible. They described lethargy, irritability, anxiety that approached each time they were to learn how much they were allowed to eat the following week.”
“Only 32 of the original 36 completed the semistarvation period. One man who broke diet admitted to stealing scrapings from the garbage cans, stealing and eating raw rutabagas, and stopping at shops to eat sundaes. Two of the men suffered severe psychological stress – one became suicidal, and another cut off three of his fingers in an act of self-mutilation. Both men were taken to a psychiatric hospital.”
You are no position to judge anything little fella. Your own sanity is easily dismissed
https://frankreport.com/2019/05/14/jeffrey-epsteins-purchase-from-department-of-justice-may-be-voided/#comments
Rose, Don’t hold your breath waiting for Jeffrey Epstein to receive justice.
Oh shadowboy he is. You stick with mental lightweights like Anon maker and his silly ilk.
I don’t think that we can really judge Mack’s sanity, particularly with the information available.
It does seem that she is troubled, and even unstable.
Perhaps separate from that, she is vulnerable to manipulation.
I have questions about what it is that has resulted in her treating, or being involved in treating, other women thoughtlessly or even cruelly.
It’s not clear to what extent she became a perpetrator herself, including possibly coming up with the idea for branding,
Hopefully, upcoming testimony at the trial, including perhaps from expert witnesses, will shed further light on Mack’s character and behavior. I’m also particularly interested to see what is revealed about all the issues of consent and undue influence that are involved in the case.
I don’t think Alisson is a narcissit. I think the erratic behavior we were observing from her was because KR unbalanced her. She was being brainwashed and was unbalanced.
I don’t care about Mack. She is a loser. I am more worried: Will NXVIM in mexico be stopped-
I agree.
“Will NXVIM in mexico be stopped-”
Good question.
I believe that something within NXIVM appeals to Mexico’s elite.
I believe that deep down NXIVM, in spite of a facade of Liberalism and Political Correctness, is fundamentally Fascist
with a Leader, the Vanguard, who is worshiped by the SHEEPLE.
Italy had Il Duce.
Germany had Der Fuehrer.
NXIVM had The Vanguard.
Here is a video from Vanguard Week 2012 where the event was already guarded by MEXICAN security.
Please excuse the crummy Russian Rap music. It comes with the video.
Vanguard week NXIVM 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch-v=a1TMaUSstZM
It’s definitely the case that there is an affinity for authoritarianism and strongmen in hispanic culture – it goes along with the well-known aspect of machismo.
There may well be some attractions specific to Mexican culture, though I’m not as familiar with as some others. Simple admiration of all things to do with the US may be a good part of it.
NXIVM, like most high control groups or cults, is authoritarian or even fascist. It’s not even that far hidden in Raniere’s adoption of the philosophy of Ayn Rand – who, though it’s little known, ran an authoritarian New York based cult of her own, centered around her open marriage, that I think demonstrated that she was actually more inclined to fascism than libertarianism.
NXIVM may have seemed as if it would appeal to a success oriented demographic who might be assumed to be progressive, I don’t think there was any facade of political correctness, as even some of the broader outreaches like Jness and SOP promoted Raniere’s retrograde notions and values regarding gender roles. NXIVM at its core was an odd hybrid, attracting urban yoga devotees to live like rural Southwestern FLDS sister wives, and any aspect that might somehow be pegged as liberal could be countered with another that could be seen as conservative-leaning. The ideological extremes sometimes have more in common with one another than anything else, and go hand in hand in a certain way; thus Der Führer was actually the head of a party called the National Socialists (NAZI is an acronym for its name in German).
I’ll go out on a limb here and guess you’re not an Ally Mack fan 😉
You bring up some interesting points but I think the evidence is pretty slim for judging her insane. Plus, diagnosing someone’s mental disorders is something best left to mental health professionals. Ones who have actually met and interviewed the subject.
As for Narcissic Personality Disorder, symptom 1 listed, lack of empathy, seems contradicted by her being a competent professional actress who understands capable of “getting” other people to the point of playing them convincingly on screen.
Her behavior seems more consistent than erratic, insofar as she’s been consistently devoted to her Vanguard. And her loathing the other women who she has to share her darling with seems pretty normal. Women don’t like sharing their man any better than men like sharing their girl.
Lastly, I don’t like the idea of ascribing people’s flaws and failings to psychiatric disorders. It’s reductive and often simply tautological (why do people join cults- Why it’s Cult Joining Disorder!) People are fallible and we’re all capable of failing big time. Ascribing bad, even criminal, behavior to mental illness inevitably reduces culpability: how can someone be blamed when they were driven to the behavior by a mental disability
As an actress Allison Mack is merely reciting lines written for her by screenwriters.
We must not confuse the actress Allison Mack with the character Chloe Sullivan.
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” her loathing the other women who she has to share her darling with seems pretty normal. Women don’t like sharing their man any better than men like sharing their girl.”
Most women don’t go to the extreme of branding and enslaving other women to express their envy or jealousy.
Most women simply dump their boyfriend or husband and find another lover.
——————————————————–
The idea of calling Allison Mack a Narcissist does not come from me.
It actually comes from a former NXIVM Insider.
This story spurred me to look up Narcissist Personality Disorder.
Full run down on top players of NXIVM by former member
By Someone Who Dealt with Them
3] Allison Mack is a narcissist and disgusting human being.
Crimes: Immigration fraud, tax evasion, assault, sexual assault, rape, extortion, fraud, and possibly about 10 other things.
Interesting fact: Allison wasn’t completely sold on NXIVM in her first few days of it.
https://frankreport.com/2018/04/18/full-run-down-on-top-players-of-nxivm-by-former-member/
NXIVM tested the personalities of all its members.
Mark Vicente saw many of these questionnaires NXIVM gave on Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
NXIVM wanted people who scored high in Narcissism for its top leadership positions.
That’s why Allison Mack rose so far and so fast.
“He recounted how he found out that the “Psychological Profile” that each participant had to fill-out on the first day of every intensive session was, in fact, a copy of a survey on Narcissistic Personality Disorder that had been developed by someone other than Keith Raniere and Nancy Salzman.”
https://frankreport.com/2019/05/10/mark-vicente-in-depth-review-part-i/
oh fuck off shadow…
You continue with this branding story and even court Don’t say it’s Allison.
YOU are one of the few stupid enough to still Believe it!
The idea of calling Allison Mack a Narcissist does come from you…You never had contact with any insider and those posting comment that are, you refuse to listen to them (as they won’t point finger against Allison)
The only person you trust are trolls (Pea, Yolanda…) it’s showing your level of intelligence.
You need serious help with your issues.
Accept the facts, you were wrong and deal with it. It must happen often to someone like you.
Psychopaths can fake, or switch on and off, empathy, and I believe that narcissists may be able to do something similar. Plus Mack was literally a professional actress.
I do think we can’t really diagnose people from afar, except possibly in some extreme cases – Raniere, at the head of it all, possibly being one of those. And based on observation of a number of groups, I have reason to suspect that those most deeply involved, particularly when it comes to seriously violating social norms and even laws, may indeed share some common psychological characteristics or flaws, such as that it seems that a pattern may be emerging that Raniere picked women to manipulate who had a background of eating disorders, but those are still only general observations. It certainly doesn’t excuse anyone for crimes, or even even harming others.
The first person I ever heard describe KAR as a “narcissist” in a televised interview upon Keith’s arrest was this guy:
· Richard P. Donoghue is the [interim] United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York.
FIY, Actaeon.
“Diagnosing someone’s mental disorders is something best left to mental health professionals. Ones who have actually met and interviewed the subject.”
I agree. We can speculate all we want but let’s characterize it as that. I think Raniere demonstrates more traits of a Narcissist than Mack does.
Don’t act like you care about évidences…you, Anonymake and Shadow showed only hate for Allison even when showed that your were all wrong…
You are amongst those who try to prove she was a monster yet use the most irrelevant details to prove it.
And then you blame Shadow for the lack of évidences- you (all 3 of you) never cared for the evidence…you Don’t even have interest for the victims nor the other (real) culprit.
Allison belongs behind bars, as does Kris Kook. Any questions-
yes. because you are so imbecile
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