Here are some excerpts from the testimony Mark Vicente gave on May 13th and May 15th – as it concerned Allison Mack.
Based on what Vicente said, Mack does appear to be more of a victim than some people generally believe.
Mark Lesko for the government is examining Vicente.
***
Q Was there anybody in particular who looked exceedingly skinny?
A My greatest concern back then was Allison Mack. I was very concerned…. I was spending a lot of time with her back then, and I just couldn’t understand why … her weight was dropping so much. And also accompanying the weight loss was sort of this tired, kind of out-of-it look…. she sometimes couldn’t focus very well. And to me, it looked like a kind of malnutrition. So I was deeply concerned about that, and so I went to talk [to] Raniere about it.
***
Q … you had a discussion with the defendant. What did he say?
A … I went to see him, and I said, ‘I’m concerned that all these people have this idea that skinniness is the ultimate objective. And I said to him, ‘It also worries me deeply given that in this society right now, the obsession, with the bodies and models, and everything, like I don’t think it’s healthy to tell a woman that her weight is tied to her enlightenment or her growth or whatever. It’s just unhealthy. It’s … bad. Women, and especially young women, have enough issues already with their appearance given the culture we live in. Why do that?’
And he said to me, ‘Well, you know, I work with different people in different ways, and there’s different reasons for different things’….
It wasn’t making any sense whatsoever. And I said, ‘But Allison — … what about Allison? … she looks terrible. … if this is her having some kind of breakthrough, I don’t [know] what’s going on. Then I don’t understand breakthroughs because she looks horrible… You know, she looks broken.’
And he said, ‘Well, I’m trying to break her.’
And I was like ‘uh-huh. Okay. Well, she’s not looking healthy.’
And he said, ‘Well, she’s still getting her period.’
And I was like, ‘Okay.’
I wasn’t sure where else to go… I was thinking to myself, ‘Well, you know, you can take a pill and still do a whole bunch of things,’ … in the end, I just backed away, because I couldn’t get any clear answers…
There seemed to be a kind of a club of young women gathering around Allison Mack and they just didn’t look healthy. I mean, you know, maybe they were healthy by Fashion Week’s standards… which is not healthy in my opinion, but they just did not at all look good.
They were just obsessed with eating as little as possible, and they would literally measure their calories on a scale. There was all this measuring going on. And there was also this obsessive penitence that they would do if they messed something up. You know, so if somebody was on a certain number of calories and they messed something up, then they would cut their calories. … I was hearing that people were cutting it down to 500 calories or 300 calories, something’s not… okay.
***
Q When the defendant told you that he was trying to break Allison Mack, what was your reaction to that comment?
A I was disturbed because a part of me thought ‘okay, well, so we’re trying to break pride…. I get that.’ But I couldn’t understand why somebody withering away was somehow going to fix that. That was the part I didn’t get. … I was at this point beginning to ask Raniere a lot of questions, but there was still the issue of my rank and his rank. So I had to be very careful that only in private would I ask him certain questions, not in public.
And then also even in private… it’s like questioning the king… Like at a certain point just slow down and be careful. So I would … just nod my head and think, ‘Okay. Well, he’s got some understanding that I don’t have and maybe there’s some wisdom I just can’t get because of something he knows.’
I don’t share that anymore, but that’s what I thought at the time.
***
Q … Do you recall when you first met Ms. Mack?
A Yes. I don’t recall the exact year, but it was at a volleyball game. She had just flown in from, I think it was Seattle on the Bronfman jet, and she had just come from the airport to come and meet — well, she told me to come and meet me and Raniere.
Q What was Allison Mack’s role in NXIVM?
A Well, in the beginning, she was… a student who became a coach, who eventually became a proctor. She was one of the heads of Jness …. she was one of the leaders. She was the head of Humanities in Albany.
Q Was that a committee?
A That’s a committee, yes. And then she also was the head of the company called The Source, which would be the acting program. And then she also for a time was involved in a company called The Knife. The Knife of Aristotle was a media analysis company.
Q Who promoted Allison Mack to proctor?
A I don’t recall exactly, but I do remember having a discussion with Lauren Salzman about it. Because I remember when she was going to be promoted, I remember saying … ‘are you serious, that’s insane. There’s something not stable about her. And… this gaggle of women that she’s mentoring… are not doing well.’
I was very concerned. I don’t recall who exactly gave the final sign-off on the promotion, though.
***
Q Who had ultimate authority to decide on who would progress on the path?
A The ultimate authority was Raniere. … he would be the final say.
Q Was Allison Mack a member of the defendant’s trusted group?
A She was.
Q When was The Source developed?
A The Source was developed sometime at 2014. It was one of the companies under the … Ultima umbrella, and it originally consisted of Allison and then I think there was 12 of us guys involved as well…
Q And did The Source have curriculum?
A The Source had curriculum. What would happen with that curriculum is Raniere would meet with us. Myself or somebody else would videotape the meeting. And that would be turned into the actual curriculum. And then once he had done… “the download of all of the material,” that was turned into …written things and videotapes and then we began running trainings.
Q And the focus was on actors?
A The focus was on actors. We were told later musician and… public speakers, but it was mostly performance…. being in front of people, how to best use the instrument of presentation or performance.
Q Did the curriculum developed for The Source, was that an adaptation of the defendant’s tech system as applied to actors?
A To some degree. There were certain things in there that were part of some of the other curriculum.
**
Q Did Allison Mack eventually move to Clifton Park?
A She did eventually. She moved from Casual Gardens, I think, to Clifton Park.
Q Do you recall approximately when this happened?
A I know for sure it was pre-2013, but I don’t remember the exact year.
Q And where did Allison Mack reside in Clifton Park?
A …she moved into 7 Generals Way, … along with my wife and I.
**
Q Did you stop living with Allison Mack at 7 Generals Way?
A Yes.
Q What happened?
A She had said at one point she needed to do some more private work and she needed to be alone. So she moved a few blocks away to Grenadier Court,…. She said she needed privacy to do some of the different projects she was working on.
Q Did Allison Mack get along with your wife?
A: At the beginning, I think, yes. Later, not so much.
Q Was your wife involved in The Source?
A Yes.
Q Was there conflict between your wife and Allison Mack regarding The Source?
A There was. The concerns my wife had related to the divisions that were occurring in the company… there were like 12, maybe 13 people that all felt like that was part of their company, and then suddenly there were their divisions… And it … was messy…. And she also had concerns about Allison’s… psychology, about her… erratic behavior and whether she … would be able to lead well.
Q At some point do you recall a meeting involving yourself, Allison Mack, your wife and the defendant?
A Yes. He offered to do an arbitration between Allison and my wife, and I was there as well…. I had said to him things were not … working. There’s a lot of unresolved issues with this company [The Source] and a lot of people feel very slighted. So he said, ‘well, maybe I should jump on board,’ which is pretty unusual. Most of the time he would say ‘it’s not good if I would do an arbitration because I’m final point. After me is the point of no return,’ so … other people do that. For some reason he felt that he would do the arbitration.
Q What was an arbitration at NXIVM?
A An arbitration at NXIVM is basically figuring out what is the issue that each person is having, and then trying to help them understand how the issue they’re having is related to their particular… issues…. their inner deficiencies, their life issues … and to get each party to take responsibility for what’s theirs and then see if there’s any action that needs to be taken… So it wasn’t just, ‘well, okay, each of you talk.’ It’s ‘each of you talk and now let’s look at other unresolved things with respect to each of you that you need to look at that may be affecting the way you’re seeing things.’…
Q So what did the defendant say at the arbitration meeting involving yourself, Allison Mack and your wife?
A Well, he started the meeting by saying, ‘well, let’s just start with ground rules. Does everybody at the table believe that everybody at this table have good intent?’
And, of course, everybody said ‘yes.’
If you said ‘no,’ it would be a huge problem. Saying ‘no’ was a huge problem because it looks like… you project. If you think somebody has bad intent, oh, well, clearly you’re the one with bad intent.
So of course you said ‘yes.’
And then he began to elicit from each person two different things. He basically had Allison admit that she… hated my wife, was trying to destroy her. Was very jealous of her.
And then… he said to my wife… basically… ‘there’s things you’ve been through like loss of innocence, I’ve seen this kind of thing.’
And then he tasked … Allison with finishing it, that what she done was a real problem and that she needed to really look into herself and fix this — this impulse that she has to destroy another woman. You know that has to be fixed. So … the way I remembered ending was basically [Allison] she has to go fix this.
**
Q: Did India have a relationship with Allison Mack?
A She would come to have a relationship when she spent more time at Albany. She… ended up being tutored by Allison Mack, or Allison Mack took a particular interest in her and took her under her wing…. I had a lot of concerns about that.
**
Q I think you mentioned that you had some important concerns about India’s relationship with Allison Mack?
A Well, I was very concerned with what happened … I saw with India was that she became enamored with Allison Mack. The kind of enamor where you don’t just admire someone because they were skilled, [but] like ‘fall in love’ with Allison Mack, ‘you are my everything’.
And I said to myself, ‘something’s unhealthy about that. I don’t know that it’s healthy for her to look at Allison Mack as some kind of… deity who knows all.’ Knowing Allison… I didn’t think that Allison should necessarily be mentoring young women, so yeah, I had concerns.
Q You discuss those concerns with the defendant?
A I did.
Q What did you say?
A I remember saying something like, ‘I don’t think that she [India] should be mentored by Allison. I don’t think it’s healthy. I think Allison has a series of issues that I’m concerned with and I don’t think she should be teaching India or some of the other people.’
Q What was the defendant’s response?
A I don’t recall specifically. I do remember him saying something like, ‘you know, well it’s not really my concern.’…
**
Q … did you discuss this secret society [DOS] with the defendant?
A I did. … I had been talking about something going on and my concerns. … at one point he asked, and it had to do with Allison Mack… he said, ‘is this something to do with the Source?’… I recall saying in March [2017], saying to him, ‘I don’t know what is going on with you and all these women, but I have deep concerns about this all blowing up in some way that is bad.’
He said to me, ‘well, I don’t think this will blow up; maybe other things will, but not this.’
I thought, ‘I don’t know where to go from here. He’s not engaging me on what I’m concerned about.’.
**
Q: So could you describe this conversation with Kayla?
A She told me that at a certain point she had seen a vow on Allison Mack’s computer. The vow was to Raniere, vowing in essence that she would never leave. And that if she ever did, she would give up … any children she had to him and all her possessions. So it was some kind of a life-long vow.
When I heard that from her [Kayla], I was extremely disturbed…. this seemed extreme. Of course I was very concerned.
Q Did this type of vow that you described, did it appear to be different from the other vows that you were familiar with in NXIVM?
A It was much more extreme. In essence giving up your children, giving up all your worldly possessions. It disturbed me.
***
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
Mark Vicente’s testimony makes one point clear:
Allison Mack is a SEXUAL PREDATOR.
The testimony of Mark Vicente clarifies a point:
Allison Mack is a SEXUAL PREDATOR.
That point would be clear if he had said that he knew if India was being harassed by Allison, but what he says is that she took it under his wing and then saw India as a love of Allison, considering her as a deity who knows everything . that does NOT put the point in the sexual for anything much less in Allison as a sexual predator for that there would have to be more testimonies of cases with her involved and I’m sorry but NOT your articles are not proof of anything but your obsession with her, for you The whole story of Nxivm, is just a footnote in the story of how Allison became the monster you want to paint.
I think it’s possible that she was, but that we have yet to see what testimony reveals about the extent to which she was a predator herself, rather than just under the undue influence of the predator Raniere. The infamous Stanford Prison Experiment – which can’t be repeated in modern times, precisely because it violates the sort of ethical norms that Raniere did in his toying with people, even nominally consenting adults – is an example to consider.
Regardless, Mack’s willingness to acquiesce to or even carry out things that harmed others and was even illegal, is troubling.
Just shut up, everytime you open your mouth, you make a fool of yourself.
Allison Mack is a sexual predator-
Shadowstate how can you possibly draw that kind of conclusion from the testimony of Mark Vincete-
You are so far out in left field you are on the dark side of the moon Shadowstate.
Keith Raniere was trying to “break” Allison Mack. The same way he broke Heidi Hutchinson’s sister Gina.
Shadowstate your are definitely more Old Testament than New Testament. You may want to change religions.
You are lucky I have seen this message after my previous last summons to stop …this would have been a good reason for me to push the button and transmit the info to the authorities.
Keep your fantasy for yourself and leave her alone before you get into trouble with the law.
False accusations are a crime, moron!
no matter where our lives take us you and i will clean up the messes no one else can dare too
I didn’t want to leave but you’re so busy ill be like Allison looking for love in all the wrong places.
Women – “We are equal to men. Possibly even superior and men are sexist to think they are superior to us!”
Women charged with sex crimes and/or murder – “I’m a poor little woman-child!! I’m not fully aware or responsible for my actions! Women are less responsible for their crimes because they are just children reacting to childhood trauma. Give women lighter sentences than men. Don’t hold women to the same high standards as men. Women do not function as highly as men and are therefore less responsible. Only white men are smart enough to be fully aware and responsible for what they do.”
Judges and Prosecutors – “I want the support of women’s groups. I was never in this for justice…all I want is money.”
Go ramble on red pill sites.
Someone hit home with you. Love when you snowflakes get triggered.
Now that’s ironic since the entire comment I responded to was you triggered.
It’s actually “traditional” that women are considered weaker and less culpable than men, and receive lesser punishments for the same crimes. The case of Lizzie Borden, acquitted of murder of her parents in part because people didn’t believe that a woman was even capable of such a crime, is a classic example of the mindset of the supposed “good old days.”
The whole odd construct of the inner circle of NXIVM and DOS was essentially a return to old-fashioned patriarchal values, and to get women to accept retrograde notions of being weaker and submitting. Strangely, it bears resemblance most to Bible-based cults like the FLDS, and contemporary Christian “family” movements promoting traditional roles where men lead and women follow.
I don’t see anyone in this claiming that women are equal or superior, but should be punished less. That’s a strawman argument.
“patriarchal values” — that’s precisely what KAR claimed to be freeing Gina from, especially those of the Mormon church we were reared in. Meanwhile, he was only taking mental notes from the Mormon missionaries sent to help convert him for their eventual temple marriage on how to better control her and “play it” for me.
Gina was booted and sent home from her Mormon mission, btw, for proselytizing Keith’s teachings while on it. (His are a mishmash and distortion of those — not what the modern LDS Church espouses at all.)
I just really want to know why so many commentors are rankled by Allison’s alleged inequitable treatment due to her tender gender without applying that same argument to Clare Bronfman or Nancy & Lauren Salzman’s light-handed treatment-
I’m sorry, but it’s obviously money and political influence that’s guiding any prejudice by the courts in this case. Not any quaint and antiquated notion of gentler handling toward the “fairer” sex.
(Although I do relish the happy thought that KAR & Nancy’s mysogenistic teachings turned on them — that’s just not the way it’s going down in this case.)
Heidi, you are amazing. Thank you for your intelligence, insight, and kindness.
Of course Allison was innocent when she started with Nx – everyone (except Keith) was innocent and a victim of some sort. It’s what people later become, the corruption of their souls and minds – and in the lots of the women’s casese, their bodies too – that has to be looked at. Those with frail (idk what else to call it) souls wound up engulfed and it was these women that he put in charge.
Alison Mack was NO angel OR victim by the time DOS was created. She was every bit as demonic as Keith and the others. And Keith knew her very very well since he was able to see that Allison’s greatest need (not desire) was the destruction of the women under her – even those whom she seemed to love the most. Mainly because Keith wanted them. He thought it was loads of fun to watch this horrible interactions between the women. It gave him great delight.
a former member of DOS once I leave a testimony in the comment section that Frank then published, what she says is that these women including allison envy women who have healthy relationships and that’s why they hate them, deep down I think that Because there is a mental instability in them that does not allow them to recognize what their heart really wants and see that it does not match what their mind has rationalized as good and correct, I remember a publication that Allison shared in his old official account. facebook, of an article about the life of a group of nuns who, despite not leading a life that was like that of most women, still found many things that they could enjoy like any other person and have full lives, and allison wrote that It is how he felt many times.
I wouldn’t trust a the comment was really from a dos member posting here but i do Believe that there is envy for a healthy Relationship…
But mental instability !- you are doing a cheap analyze here. He (Vicente) talked about instability due to the unhealthy diet and lack of sleep.
She was pushed over the edge by Raniere.
Before this whole cult, Allison was sane (but feeling a bit unsecured)
But mental instability!
This is something that I POINT about Vicente’s testimony about allison, by which I refer to the specific time in which this situation was happening for her and that was remarkable for him, in no case I mean that this mental instability is something own in it, also speak of women in DOS in general because the comment left by the exmienbro was referring to the status in all women in DOS or at least the most faithful to KAR
that photo was taken by the police when she was arrested, if you look at the photo of KAR you can see the difference, while she does not realize her real situation, KAR looks very tense if he knows what was waiting for her.
Allison Mack sure looks chipper in that photo.
precisely shadow, it is noted that she is in a state of denial and confusion that prevents him from demonstrating his true emotional state before the situation, but KAR on the other hand shows how annoying this of his plans did not go as expected and that he was probably betrayed for the salinas and who knows who else.
yeah yeah, coming from you, i didn’t expect less than this BS about she was demonic etc…you sound like a broken record (like many here).You know Nothing about Allison yet hate her so you read only what fits your idéa that she was a monster…luckily,not everyone is like you.
Relevant Passages that should be discussed:
“I remember when she (Allison) was going to be promoted, I remember saying … ‘are you serious, that’s insane. There’s something not stable about her. ”
My response: From the beginning Allison Mack h.ad serious mental health issues.
These issues exist without Keith Raniere doing anything.
I have discussed in some detail Ms. Mack’s Narcissism.
Shadow: Allison Mack is complex
https://frankreport.com/2019/04/29/shadow-allison-mack-is-complex/
Shadow: Allison Mack may be easy to manipulate but that does not absolve her of her many crimes
March 28, 2019
https://frankreport.com/2019/03/28/shadow-allison-mack-may-be-easy-to-manipulate-but-that-does-not-absolve-her-of-her-many-crimes/
Narcissist Personality Disorder is marked by:
1.Lack of Empathy towards others.
2. Lack of Boundaries in personal behavior
3. A craving for adoration.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662
Prisons are packed with people who suffer from psychological disorders.
————————————————————————–
“Q: Did Allison Mack get along with your wife-
A: At the beginning, I think, yes. Later, not so much.”
:”And she (my wife Bonnie) also had concerns about Allison’s… psychology, about her… erratic behavior and whether she … would be able to lead well.”
“And then he began to elicit from each person two different things. He basically had Allison admit that she… hated my wife, was trying to destroy her. Was very jealous of her”
” that what she done was a real problem and that she needed to really look into herself and fix this — this impulse that she has to destroy another woman. You know that has to be fixed. So … the way I remembered ending was basically [Allison] she has to go fix this.”
My response: Everyone in Knox Woods knew about Allison’s personality disorders and erratic behavior.
So much was known about Allison’s erratic behavior that she earned the nick name “Ally Wack.:
Catherine Oxenberg wrote in the book “Captive” that Mack would wake up at 2 AM at night screaming bloody murder and could only calm down by going on long walks until dawn.
—————————————————————————–
“Q: Did India have a relationship with Allison Mack-
A: She would come to have a relationship when she spent more time at Albany. She… ended up being tutored by Allison Mack, or Allison Mack took a particular interest in her and took her under her wing…. I had a lot of concerns about that.”
Q: I think you mentioned that you had some important concerns about India’s relationship with Allison Mack-
A: Well, I was very concerned with what happened … I saw with India was that she became enamored with Allison Mack. The kind of enamor where you don’t just admire someone because they were skilled, [but] like ‘fall in love’ with Allison Mack, ‘you are my everything’.
And I said to myself, ‘something’s unhealthy about that. I don’t know that it’s healthy for her to look at Allison Mack as some kind of… deity who knows all.’ Knowing Allison… I didn’t think that Allison should necessarily be mentoring young women, so yeah, I had concerns.
Q: You discuss those concerns with the defendant-
A: I did.
Q: What did you say-
A: I remember saying something like, ‘I don’t think that she [India] should be mentored by Allison. I don’t think it’s healthy. I think Allison has a series of issues that I’m concerned with and I don’t think she should be teaching India or some of the other people.’
Q: What was the defendant’s response-
A: I don’t recall specifically. I do remember him saying something like, ‘you know, well it’s not really my concern.’…
My Response: I apologize to Catherine Oxenberg for what I am about to say but the facts are clear.
Any shame in this sorrowful episode belongs on Allison Mack’s shoulders, not India’s.
Now these passages demonstrate that Allison Mack enjoyed the services of India Oxenberg as a sex slave.
NXIVM DOS was not only designed for Raniere’s benefit but also to serve Allison Mack’s sexual desires.
Allison Mack should be ashamed of herself.
India Oxenberg is an impressionable young woman and Allison Mack as a mentor exploited the love and respect that India had for her.
Allison Mack used and abused India Oxenberg.
Allison Mack is a perpetrator.
Allison Mack is a mentally unbalanced woman. who can not put her own life together and Allison Mack has no business mentoring anyone.
Allison Mack is like the lesbian gym teacher who abuses the young women she is supposed to be coaching.
—————————————————————————————–
Q: So could you describe this conversation with Kayla-
A: She told me that at a certain point she had seen a vow on Allison Mack’s computer. The vow was to Raniere, vowing in essence that she would never leave. And that if she ever did, she would give up … any children she had to him and all her possessions. So it was some kind of a life-long vow.
When I heard that from her [Kayla], I was extremely disturbed…. this seemed extreme. Of course, I was very concerned.
Q: Did this type of vow that you described, did it appear to be different from the other vows that you were familiar with in NXIVM-
A: It was much more extreme. In essence giving up your children, giving up all your worldly possessions. It disturbed me.
My response: Allison’s vow to give up her children sounds like something from an old European children’s tale.
It sounds like the story of Rumpelstiltskin.
Rumpelstiltskin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin
No man, even one as demented as Keith Raniere, would demand a woman’s children as tribute.
Sometimes husbands and wives fight over child custody but both already have a relationship with the children.
THIS EXTREME PLEDGE SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE COME FROM ALLISON MACK’S EXTREME MIND.
In a later post I will discuss this issue of pledging one’s children as “collateral in more detail and in a different context.
BUT PLEASE MAKE THIS NOTE:
KEITH RANIERE DID NOT DEMAND THIS KIND OF COLLATERAL FROM ANYONE ELSE.
I believe the idea of pledging one’s children to Raniere came from Allison Mack herself.
No sane woman would pledge her children as collateral.
Allison Mack is NOT sane.
Lauren Salzman testimony in Daily Mail.
https://mol.im/a/7042243
Oh. Well if Mark Vicente said it it must be true. I’m not saying he’s lying but he could be lying. Or exaggerating. Or dead on accurate with his observations. It doesn’t vindicate Mack. And I’m not on the Shadow Train of hatred for Mack. I’m pointing out that his observations and the conclusions he suggest are not necessarily Mack’s actual state of mind, reflection of her intent or emotional state.
Vicente has an immunity deal with the DOJ, so he needs to be careful not to contradict any documentation they have, or the deal is off.
Seriously…Because you know better than him.
It’s hard to accept the Truth , i understand but he(Vicente) knows better than you!
Testimony about orders for BDSM sex toys.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/nxivm-trial-bdsm-sex-toy-testimony-kink-consent-836798/
Was that her mug shot-
So does Mr. Shadow, because he still thinks Mack is Satan on earth.
I literally have tears streaming down my face reading this real time account of Allison’s treatment. I know at the bottom of my soul, Alison‘s life was at stake.
Heidi,
after all you have been through, your empathy for Allison Mack is astounding. You have been so badly hurt by Keith and friends, and yet here you are crying for Allison Mack. You are just incredible. The world needs more people like you. Don’t change.
Same backatcha, NC. Thank you. I hope there’s more sympathy toward the actual victims like Allison (and all the Jane Does) expressed on here as more and more of the facts emerge.
There will be zero sympathy for Mack coming from me.
Nobody is looking for your sympathy…it would be worst than your hate.
NCGirl, I couldn’t agree more!!
Allison Mack, Mark Vicente and Kristin Kreuk all knew about Gina as all were named as cultists in the TU expose. Don’t feel sorry for these morons Heidi.
Based on what- you are ridiculous…the only moron here is you.
Not at the end Heidi. It was everyone under Alison who’s lives were at stake. They didn’t choose death. She did.
You sure know the case…Allison’s life was way more threatened than the other…Raniere was trying to break her!
Read what he said instead of blowing your fantasy about Allison being the ultimate monster.
You are just an outsider who always cultivates a hatred against Allison, judging without knowing anything.
Think before you talk!
“You are just an outsider… judging without knowing anything. Think before you talk!”
One thing I’ve consistently noticed about culty thinking – it tends to implicate itself, Freudian slip style.
We may have it on record that Raniere said he was trying to break Mack, but we don’t know that she was necessarily somehow “way more threatened,” particularly given the testimony we’ve now seen about how he manipulated Lauren Salzman. Raniere messed with all of them, but curiously, Mack was one who stayed and went along with the worst of it, even when many of the women including the mother of his firstborn child got up and left.
Your “fantasy” about Ally being the innocent girl next door that she played on Smallville is long blown. She’s already pleaded guilty to felonies, and just how much more she was also guilty of will probably come out when she testifies eventually.
Stop with your cheap analysis, you are not clever (nor knowledgeable) enough to do it…
It was a fact! To the question: Q: Was there anybody in particular who looked exceedingly skinny-
Vicente answered:
A: My greatest concern back then was Allison Mack. I was very concerned….
She was in an awful state! it’s a fact! but it doesn’t fit the “Allison is a monster” scheme you like so you excluded this from your mind.
And contrary to you, I know what I talk about. You can think all you want that it’s a “fantasy” but it seems to be a “fantasy” that is getting confirmed every day a little more.
While you are basing your fake accusations on BS and fake interview!
You are amongst a minority of stupid people who still blindly hate Allison.
You should start to analyze yourself before trying to play the psy over here.
You’re wrong. When Gina happened, Allison was not part of the inner circle. I do not even know if she was already in NXIVM
Thank you for thinking of Gina! And I’d add Rhianon and a couple of others — who have asked not to be named — to the “worst of it” list before Allison’s time.
I also find AnonyMaker’s very faulty timeline comparison of Lauren to Allison “curious.” AnonyMaker states:
“how he [Keith] manipulated Lauren Salzman… but curiously, Mack was the one who stayed and went along with the worst of it” — AnonyMaker
How do you figure, AnonyMaker-
Lauren was at least ass-deep in NXIVM at the time of Gina’s death — whether or not it was she who actually penned Gina’s Nx death chart in August 2002 as some have indicated (perhaps that was the mysterious writing assignment Lauren testified she was loathe to undertake that so upset KAR).
Lauren was also square in the “innercircle” when clients were being carried out in stretchers and hospitalized, when Kristin Snyder “disappeared,” etc. all the way up to the moment of KAR’s arrest.
Lauren was even among the harem in Mexico standing by the man she testified she was no longer interested in having sexual relations with as the Federals stuffed him in the wagon.
Curiously, btw, it was only Ally pictured in the frames sent to FR for publication, however. And we still don’t know who was behind “Nicki Clyne’s camera.” Maybe Ally does — she can’t be reading this as using a computer is against HER but not Lauren’s bail orders. Let’s hope Ally’s asked about that on the stand — but I kinda doubt it will happen.
So, what are you making AnonyMaker- A book or a case against the truly still DEFENSELESS Ally Mack-
In my books, Ally was and still is long being set up to take the fall and or cushion it for the Salzman’s, Raniere and our Amigos en Mexico — one of whom happens to own that Nation’s bank, another of whom has a huge chunk of the money that was once in that bank to his family name, who were butt-fucking (figuratively speaking) long before Raniere and Salzman had them ‘manifesting the act on the physical plane.’
Another thing — a paradox if you will — why DID Nancy pants casually leave half a million —her only escape stash — under her bed at the time of Raniere’s arrest-
My Guess- Dennis Burke and John Sandweg — their long retained immigration counsel — allegedly retained by that shwerd maven of legal business, Clare Bronfman, plum forgot to tell Nance about the FBI protocol (HA!) that might have them showing up at her door with a camera crew and search warrant upon KAR’s arrest so many miles away. Maybe they even reassured old Nan and Clare Bear they were in no danger of arrest themselves. But Nancy kept the money handy just in case.
My but didn’t they get that armed, retired Secret Service protection detail for Raniere’s bail hearing lined up fast- Along with some other key, distinguished officers of the court-
But, maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s all the fault of one sinister, demented, schizo starlet —former starlet — screaming out bloody murder in the night named Allison “Pimp”
Mack — who, like her icon Joan of Arc had visions of grandeur — only Allison’s visions may have only been Hollywood stardom and finding the man of her dreams.
Sorry to say, Heidi but if you expect anything not faulty from Anonymaker, you’re going to be disappointed.
He doesn’t need proof, he’ll make them!
She was reading the menu of a restaurant, so she is a monster…She was leaving a lightbulb on, so she is a monster! She was eating vegan, so she is a monster.
Anything is a good excuse for Anonymaker, Shadow and some other to blame Allison.
And nothing showing that she was a victim too will change anything! They are convinced by their own lies.
You certainly know better than I, ION.
From what I do know, albeit
remotely in both timeframe and distance, I don’t believe Allison’s choice of death as you so poetically put it was entirely — if at all — her own.
Heidi, we are all behind you in this. Your sister was far too young to combat this type of evil. Hell, I have trouble even as an adult. Vindication is well on its way for Gina. She is still fighting this mad man! And you… are the best sister that she could have ever wished for, in spades.
❤️
She seems to have had shaky foundations that made her easy to manipulate. People who run cults are very good at sniffing out people’s vulnerabilities and exploiting them. Its a strange thought, but some time in prison might do her good, and eventually help her to find herself.
In reality, before Nxivm, she didn’t…
And how some prison time might do her good!- are you serious!
She’ll probably have time to do but it’s not gonna do her good at all.
BTW, it’s sad to see that victims end up in jail and read “some time might do her good”…
Latest from the NY Post. Not even Siobhan Hotaling wanted VanGrifter’s sperm. Even after Keith offered 50% off tuition for his spank spawn at Rainbow CULTural Garden. Sheesh!
https://nypost.com/2019/05/17/slave-master-recounts-horrifying-details-of-relationship-with-nxivm-leader/
Siohban Hotaling was exposed as a money mule between Canada and the US and she was named in Joe O’Hara’s lawsuit. Everyone exposed so far was in that lawsuit, including dumb actresses Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack. Dirty.
Hotaling is a lesbian.
Many lesbians don’t want any man’s sperm.
obviously you have not read all the articles published by Frank about the testimony of women who were part of DOS or the haren of KAR one of those articles says “all the women who live or spend a lot of time in the center of albany eventually have sex with Keith Including lesbians “
vanguard asking for children doesnt say at what age …..first dibs-
No where does it say that pledging children was Raniere’s idea.
No other NXIVM woman pledged her children.
Only Allison Mack did because it was Allison Mack’s idea.
So Keith was saying he was trying to break her, and to top it off she has Shadow an anonoymus internet “writer” who has wrote said then 100 hate fuelled articles without having ever met her, and has said that’ll he’ll stop at nothing (as long as it’s legal) to make sure she never works again, or can move on with her life… it’s quite a sad situation 🙁
nancy saltman offered up her kid why is this so far fetched…..something prompted mack to offer up this intangible {and for most moms unthinkable} tease
You are a moron, you talk without knowing…She didn’t have a choice at pledging.
He was telling them what to pledge.
What happened with Stephen Herbits- any news-
Shadowstate is not going to be happy with this article . He has spent a year “researching” and concluded she is “eveil” there is nothing anyone could do to clear that red mist!
At least he got another picture for his collection.
This does seem as though Allison had a lot of mental issues that have been exacerbated by Raniere’s “mentoring.” Good for Vicente for seeing how unstable and unhealthy Allison was becoming and for trying to help her–Raniere was of course the ultimate reason for her problems and at least she’s gotten away from him now.
Thanks for posting this 🙂
She didn’t before nxivm, those mental issue happened due to treatments of Raniere.
Vicente thought she was instable due to the diet (Dangerous diet prescribed by Raniere) and the night terror…She wasn’t suffering those before Nxivm.
‘even in private… it’s like questioning the king’ Seriously- What’s wrong with these people-
As for Mack being a victim, well, yes I suppose she was. She’s messed up and Raniere took advantage. He’s a little man who never grew beyond being the little boy who likes to pull the wings off flies. He’s cruel and Mack’s a fool.
This sordid tale of NXIVM is a fascinating tragicomedy of human failings, of the stupid led by the cruel. The above testimony is remarkably reminiscent of high school, at least of the high school lunch table where the less bright students kids hung out. The petty bickering, the personality conflicts. Hero worshiping fools with empty heads. Reading Vincente’s brain droppings makes me suspect he’s a couple of bricks short of a full load himself.
There’s something pathetic about any adult who feels the need to find a hero to tell them how to lead their life. Without the sense to know that anyone who promises to have all the answers is a charlatan. These are fools asking to be taken advantage of, and surprise of surprises that’s exactly what they got. If Allison Mack hadn’t run afoul of Keith Raniere it would’ve been some other charlatan. Because she’s a dumbass. And there’s no cure for stupid.
I vaguely recall Mack blogging something about she had trouble reading books because, except for scripts, she’d start falling asleep after half a page. It might have been her or some other bubble head actress. Whatever, the shoe fits.
“If Allison Mack hadn’t run afoul of Keith Raniere it would’ve been some other charlatan. Because she’s a dumbass. And there’s no cure for stupid.”
Well said.
Allison Mack is no Chloe Sullivan.
“I vaguely recall Mack blogging something about she had trouble reading books because, except for scripts, she’d start falling asleep after half a page.”
Mack always laments not going to college but I doubt if she could even handle the course load at a community college.
I graduated from a Big Ten college with Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees.
In many of my courses my professors actually wrote the text books from which they taught.
Allison Mack would not have made it out of Freshman years.
GPA please!
GPA 3.6/4.0 Undergraduate
3.2/4.0 Grad School
Get a life moron…
You graduated from a clown college and your master is at reading Wikipedia.
Seeing how asocial you can be, I doubt you would have made it out to freshman years either.
She was lamenting about not going to college because she had her career…she still considered to go to college (eventually) but then Nxivm happened.
You know NOTHING about Allison so stop trying to make BS.
You graduated from a clown college
University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Illinois_at_Urbana–Champaign
Easy to pretend, you like to talk without showing proof…but your background over here says otherwise!
If you are not from a clown college , you are not graduated at all.
BTW if true, you are an insult to this University and they probably should sue you for the bad publicity you bring to them!
— Allison- trouble reading- suuure…She wasn’t dumb, she was trustfull, she trusted the wrong person but she was quite smart (before nxivm ,anyway).
Even when you see it’s a victim, you manage to insult her, you have way too much hate toward her for it to be healthy.
Acteón sorry but here I have to contradict you, anyone who has followed allison in their social media accounts, knows that she was a lover of reading especially of poetry she always promoted some of her favorite poets and writers like.
James Baldwin.
AnneBrontë.
Anaïs Nin.
Rumi
JohnSteinbeck
among others .
Well very interesting the way he describes Alison i lived next to her all i know she use to keep me up singing loud partues did not appreciate it since i gp to work amd always cars parked on my lawn all hours of tje night as farvas imdia she looked so be very wirh drawn never spoke she wss my worst neighbors i ever had glad shes gone
Thanks for aggregating this information, since Mack is a particularly interesting case.
I expect that Anonyme/Frenchie will jump all over this as proof vindicating his Ally. However, I think we really want to see testimony about her role in DOS, to get a better idea of to what extent she was a victim, or a perpetrator herself. Vicente’s perspective presents her as somewhat troubled and vulnerable, though as with that of some others it suggests she tended to have issues with other women, possibly jealousy and even hate, and could end up dealing harshly with them.
A while back I was scanning titles of entries in Mack’s archived blog, and it happened to catch my eye that in one, she talked about food as a means of control – the classic statement of someone with an eating disorder. It thus seems likely that she had a pre-existing issue that Raniere exploited, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out if that was common if not even typical of the women who he managed to bring under his sway.
I usually agree with your comments, AnonyMaker — except for that time I won that nice dinner I’ll not forget you owe me. 😊
Clearly, your wealth of general knowledge on cults and cultists is a valuable, welcome asset here.
But I don’t think you know dick about “catty” chicks and your conclusions about Allison being one are not supported by any facts presented thus far. You mentioned you were interested in Allison’s in particular but it seems to me you’ve made forgone conclusions as to her character or fallen in line with some who have who wish to portray her as the female villain of this tale who acted independently in her alleged hatred toward the female sex. Certainly it was Allison Mack’s initials straight on, not a sideways monogram of KAR’s, that rests on the pubone of his victims. NOT!
On the contrary, Allison’s warmth toward the other girls is underscored by witnesses such as “Jane” on FR who appears to adore her and did not classify Allison as one of the “mean girls” Jane mentioned —whose prying eyes were to be avoided.
In fact, it appears Keith used Allison’s popularity among the DOS slaves to manipulate them. If the slaves failed to do as demanded, Allison herself — not her slaves, mind you — would be corporeally punished by her master or grandmaster —mysterious to some but known to Jane as “Keith” — who was the truly cruel (and impotent — and how would our GBD recruit, Jane, know that if she hadn’t seduced him or tried to) one.
In fact, having to seduce Keith —or winding up naked with him near a camera — is the only cruelty it appears Allison may have inflicted on her slave downline.
Nancy & Lauren Salzman, not so much.
Allison mugs for the camera like a character actress, not a leading lady or any prima dona I’ve ever known.
She’s a “bottom” not a “top” in the parlance of the BDSM world. She offers her tongue, submissively…not unlike the other sheep in Keith’s fleeced flocked.
I haven’t seen a stitch of make-up on Allison Mack’s face in any court appearance yet — face it, she’s not all that competitive, manipulative or deceptive by nature — IMO. She downplays her appearance, wouldn’t dare present a threat…and so what if she’s girlishly flirty with the older men — but that’s a “Daddy” thing, IMO, in a moment she feels helpless and clings, subserviently, to the patriarchy — not at all doing so as a “fairest-of-them-all” F-U to her own sex — who are yet helpless to help her despite Jane’s awesomely courageous effort — and didn’t, doesn’t, Nx try mightily to condition them — all of them including the men — out of any urge to do so-! To rescue a female-
…Referencing the borrowed Mexican drug cartel snuff films shown to would-be DOS slaves, wherein Women’s heads were chopped off — which, btw, I first caught sight of online with Gina back in 1999, when Ana Fox — daughter of the Mexican President, Vincente Fox, elected by US monitored voting poles — presided over Mexico and was later exposed as another PRI Salinas/Slim puppet — mysteriously joined ESP, executive success programs — a cult outfit from bumfuck Albany, NY suburbs — under the reign of Hillary Rodham Clinton at the time.
As to Allison: Keith’s Madison Ave. adman dad said it once — Keith’s mother, Vera, was dying sick in bed while raising him alone. …Quoting the GBD website: “you can accomplish a lot in bed, tee-hee,”
Allison’s groomers included the infamous, dead, pedophile wing-woman Pam Caffritz; to whom Allison posthumously tweeted, “I miss you, Pammy” during a fireworks show in Albany, NY on July 4, 2016.
Not at all in character for a “mean-girl,” catty chick.
Allison had many close, female friendships before Kristin Kruek who, indeed, led her into Nx’s Net by her own example. It appears to me Ally worshipped the ground KK walked on and blindly followed in her living footsteps…to a point, no one seems to know exactly where it ends.
[Funny, I know another “KK” who may have led my dead sister, Gina Hutchinson, to her grave — perhaps, perhaps not — but she believes she did if she’s, in fact, the Rat — to please and appease “one” psychopathic madman who preyed on her jealousy, her “penis envy,” her issues she would have to overcome before she could become the “one” — born “Keith Alan Raniere,” worshipped by some as “The Vanguard.”]
There are many more character windows that show Allison was just not naturally the jealous type and cleaved to her female companions. She held slumber parties, she happily entertained her all-girl guests without a gent in sight.
Allison sought acceptance into the “female empowerment” leadership role — taking Pam’s banner — by venerating Keith, Vanguard, as much as Chloe Sullivan held Superman in awe but kept Kent’s Secret.
And here’s the twist:
Vicente testified that Keith “arbitrated” Allison into claiming she “hated” his wife, Bonnie, putting Allison and the words KAR put in Allison’s mouth “at-cause” for the problems with “Allison’s” company Keith promised her — The Source.
Sarah Edmondson — at the prompting of her husband “Nippy” — describes in the CBC podcast how Keith indoctrined Nx members in his own misogynistic views. How Sarah would point out the “obliviousness” of a bad woman driver, etc.
Keith tried to make girls hate themselves and one another as much as he loathed them. And most despicably, disguised it as mentoring and empowerment training — a way to help them fulfill their most Joyous dreams by putting them through his worst nightmare.
I Don’t need to use this as a proof, it is a proof…Someone who was in the cult,close to Allison for years and knew her isn’t enough for you-
Still prefer to Believe your fake interviews, please continue to make a fool of yourself.
Vicente presented a perspective based on what HE SAW…He thought she was instable (not at the beginning) because of the action of Raniere.
He didn’t knew it was raniere who was behind the diet or the night terror (result of his extreme actions against Allison).
The jealousy was also Something that Raniere was pushing some people into.
Freud, stop your cheap analyze…she didn’t had any eating disorder until Raniere…It’s HIS DIET!
Even when proofs are rubbed in you moronic face, you try to turn around the evidence to prove she was insane and a monster. you are pathetic.
Good call. This phony anonmaker continues to clog this board up with his useless word salad. Interesting he posts non stop as the Raniere trial started. Those who squawk the loudest usually have the most to hide
“Someone who was in the cult,close to Allison for years and knew her isn’t enough for you-”
Are you referring to yourself, or someone you got some information from- Regardless, time and again you’ve proven not only to not have truly insightful knowledge about her, but actually to be wrong in the claims you make spun as insider information.
When scanning through the titles of pieces in the first years of her blog – in the process, disproving some of your assertions, such as that she recommended many books other than Shantaram – I happened to notice that she made a classic eating disorder sufferer reference, saying that she found her food something she could control. That’s something Raniere exploited – Sylvie, for instance, testified that she was anorexic when she was young – that was pre-existing.
I’m talking about Vicente! MORON!
Vicente testified but you are oblivious to it because it doesn’t fit the agenda of “Allison is the monster”.
That’s a proof, you know- Do you know about testimonies- you do- I not sure you understand…Do you want me to explain it like you were 6- Because you sound like you need an explanation.
Oh and Sherlock, stop trying to figure who I might be because you won’t find me in your fake interview nor you stupid assumptions.
Forbes was ahead of the times when they published in 2003
Edgar Bronfman thought the group was a cult and concerned for his daughters.
Forbes posted an update to the 2003 article.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyakowicz/2019/05/15/keith-raniere-the-leader-of-the-nxivm-sex-cult/#69edd71735a9
Rather than claiming to empower women, it seems evident that Raniere has a deep seeded hatred of women. I still think that he was likely molested by a female when he was a child or a trusted female didn’t “protect” him from something that he perceived as a traumatic event as a child. Or maybe he’s just plain evil.
Raniere’s mother was alcoholic and ill, and after his parents got divorced he reportedly had to do things like stay up late at night to care for her. That’s a classic setup for emotional incest, if not actually worse. That explains something, though it doesn’t excuse anything.
Ever seen the movie Spanking the Monkey-
No, it has nothing to do with the turban wearing freak show.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking_the_Monkey
Anony, I read that too, however I believe the “caring for her” claim came from KAR himself, so I put little stock in it. I can’t imagine KAR “taking care” of anything or anyone, except himself. I doubt he has a nurturing bone in his body.
However, we will never know what, if anything, went on behind closed doors.
Checking, it does appear that the source of the specifics are indeed what Raniere himself told Bouchey and Natalie (below). However, Vanity Fair apparently corroborated some of the general outline from the father:
”He didn’t say much about his past, except that his mother had a heart condition, was an alcoholic, “and that he always had to take care of her.” He said he hated dance “because his mother would make him dance with her.” “I think she drank more than she should have, but I don’t think she had a drinking problem,” says Raniere’s father, James. At least, he says, “I never saw it,” although he wonders if it was what Keith saw, “from living with her alone.” If Keith’s childhood was troubled at all, says his father, it was only because his mother “was dying for three years, little by little.” She died when he was 18, right around Christmas.
https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2010/11/bronfman-201011
Thanks for digging that up. Very interesting indeed.
OCD, you’re welcome. I try not to assert anything that I can’t back up with references – and to either cite those references at the time, or to retrieve them if asked (preferably nicely, thanks).
If I ever don’t follow up on something, it may be that I’ve simply missed it. I apologize in advance (or retroactively) for that happening.
Yet, it’s not true as the ex-husband said that Raniere’s mother was not alcoholic and he did try to ‘care for her’ but she wasn’t really comfortable with that.
Like you said, It’s Raniere’s claim.
I think you’re exactly right about his deep hatred of women – whatever the cause. He seems to enjoy seeing them suffer and deteriorate. He uses them financially, sexually, and to do his bidding. He targets and tortures those who dare to quit their servitude to him. He cares not one whit about anyone’s health, personal growth, or success. Come to think of it, he seems not to like men much either. He cuckolds and diminishes them. Notice that he seems to be out of contact with his own father, and no other extended family member (if there is any) has stepped up to defend him. IMO he’s a cold, selfish and unfeeling bastard who accordingly has made no close, meaningful personal relationships.
How did he get this way- My guess would be he was wired wrong from birth. There’s no fixing that. And unchecked, these people grow more and more dangerous over time.
I’d guess that a variety of factors contributed to him turning into a particularly corrupted person – the old nature versus nurture paradox. In a very good piece about Raniere’s early years, there’s this:
““Some kids are born evil. Keith was born evil,” Jessica Plaut, who knew him from grades 2 to 4, said.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-delving-into-the-childhood-of-nxivms-leader_2540043.html
Most psychopaths go on to be productive members of society without really harming others, though they may get into professions from advertising and politics that involve a certain amount of ruthless manipulation, and a few actually seem to live relatively normal lives including even effectively developing and practicing empathy.
To whoever commented in an earlier story that Vicente was lying during cross examination because he couldn’t recall every single detail, it obviously occurred during his direct questioning as well. This is quite normal given it was a long time ago and there were a lot of things going on.
Only Ben has perfect recall. LOL
Seems like pedaphiles who like girls also like for the adult women they are involved with to be extremely skinny and have a child like look…The protocol NEXIUM uses is the same as mkultra , US govt. means of using women and children for their undercover work. Starvation, sleep deprivation , trauma so as to break up brain function. Thanks for the Memories by Brice Taylor is a great illustration of the method and what can be accomplished by the methods. Henry Kissinger was Brice Taylor’s handler. One of the men she was assigned to was president Reagan.
Interesting tidbit about Vicente: he appears to have distanced himself (at least on IMDB, and this week in court, according to a Times Union article) about his involvement in a 2018 documentary called “My Tourette’s”, which was produced by Claire Bronfman and featured NXIVM stars Marc Elliot, Keith Raniere, and Nancy Salzman.
From the Times Union article dated May 16, 2019:
“Agnifilo asked Vicente if it is true he went to the Green Mountain Film Festival to confront India Oxenberg, who was there to promote a 2018 documentary about Tourette Syndrome caled “My Tourette’s” that was produced by NXIVM director of operations Claire Bronfman
Vicente said he had been deeply concerned about India Oxenberg because “she was still a true believer” in NXIVM, and was in danger.”
(https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/NXIVM-13851004.php)
It seems peculiar that he’s so concerned about India’s involvement considering that–according to his own persona website–he DIRECTED the same Tourette Syndrome film that India was going to promote. Here’s a link to the page on Vicente’s website which lists his completed film projects: https://www.markvicente.com/completed
Even stranger, if you go to IMDB, you’l notice that all traces of Mark’s name are absent from the film’s credits:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6096256/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm
Is he being fully truthful on the stand?
Furthermore, in the article it is demonstrated that the judge tossed out any further discussion about Tourette Syndrome:
“Agnifilo said Vicente, his wife Bonnie Piesse, and a film crew stalked India Oxenberg at a Manhattan restaurant where she worked. The lawyer suggested Vicente was “an agent for the destruction of NXIVM.
Vicente countered that the crew was a block away, and his wife wanted to speak to India Oxenberg out of concern.
The judge said he was not going to take the issue of curing Tourette Syndrome lightly. He barred discussion of it unless the defense brought it up in its case.
“We’re not going into it,” the judge said. “Tourette is out.”
So, why is “Tourette out”? Is it because we’re not supposed to know that Mark actually directed the film?
[…] Go to Source Author: Frank Parlato […]