By Village Dianne
With additional information from a story published in the New York Post]
Mark Vicente testified for the entire day today and we still have not seen his cross examination. He will continue tomorrow on direct examination.
The highlight of the afternoon, however, was a video of Keith Raniere.
Before we get to that, a few things Vicente testified about:
- In Mexico, Nxivm had wealthy people from prestigious families, from the upper echelons of society. This was in contrast to members in the USA. Emiliano Salinas was in Keith’s trusted group. Vicente said he wasn’t aware if Keith ever went to Mexico.
- Vicente finally realized that Nxivm was not promoting people’s dreams. Instead, they were quashing people’s dreams.
- He was concerned that Keith was treated like a god. He was concerned about the almost religious nature of devotion to him.
- During V-Week 2016, there was a project that required them to find Keith every night. And the penance was to stand still for one hour if they hadn’t found him. One night, Keith didn’t show up. Vicente walked around and shined his flashlight in different places. He shined the flashlight into a cabin where he saw Keith and a woman in bed with their legs intertwined. Vicente didn’t say anything, he just walked back. He was deeply disturbed by this.
- in November 2016, Pam Cafrtiz died. He didn’t know why her death was kept a secret.
- January 20, 2017. Vicente’s wife resigned from Nxivm. She said the organization was built on coercion, fear, obligation and rules.
- Vicente did not leave with his wife. He wanted to stick it out. He thought Keith was a shining light and that the problems were really with other people and Keith was blameless.
- Sarah Edmondson and her husband [Anthony Ames] wanted to buy a house in Clifton Park. Vicente advised them not to since people who moved there didn’t do well.
- The upper rank were supposed to have wisdom and maturity, but instead, they were extremely rule bound.
- Keith characterized cult expert Rick Ross as an enemy. Keith told Vicente that Ross was being paid huge sums of money [to attack Nxivm]. Keith told Vicente that Ross was responsible for the tragedy at Waco.
Now we come to the video.
The sex lair of Keith Raniere’s – something he called his “Executive Library” – was the location of a 2012 film that was shown in court. Adrian appears to have videoed this.
The film shows the sex lair with books, a table, a bed suspended over a hot tub and white-boards with supposed mathematical equations and a sketch of a toaster. An unsolved Rubik’s cube sits on Raniere’s desk, according to the New York Post.
There were lots of books on science, philosophy, computers, many other subjects. Mariana and Pam Cafritz were in the video.
The Library [or sex lair] is at 8 Hale Dr. in Knox Woods in Clifton Park. Raniere used it for years as his bachelor pad. Federal agents raided the town home a day after Raniere was arrested in late March 2018. They found child pornography — nude photos of then-15-year-old Camilia on a hard drive there.
“It’s a man-den office,” Vicente said.
According to the Post, the video starts out with Raniere admitting he hasn’t read many books in the library – and then making crude comments as he looks through wedding photographs in a photo album of two of Raniere’s followers. Keith designed their wedding vows.
“Did you notice in one of the crowd shots the woman isn’t wearing panties?” Raniere asks the group gathered in the study for the film.
He calls women “piggies” and says, “To tease a woman about her odor, to say she’s a fish-hole, it’s official, she’s a fish-hole,” Raniere said to the camera.
Raniere jokes about people “fucking” sheep and goats.
He answers a phone call in a chair saying, “Lick me.”
Raniere belches and gives the finger to the camera.
At one point, Raniere lays down in the middle of the room, but did not take off his glasses.
“If I take my glasses off, I get sleepy or horny,” Raniere says.
“He told me he did lots of things lying down,” Vicente testified.
As the camera pans around the center, a hard drive is seen on a shelf to the right of the seating area. I believe the prosecution wanted to show that the hard drive was in plain sight. They showed this hard drive on a shelf, and made a big deal out of it.
The showing of the video was very time consuming. They had to go to this specific spot in the video and then this other spot. It made the afternoon’s testimony shorter, with less actual testimony from Vicente.
Vicente testified that Keith was very particular about where things should be in the library. He didn’t want anything relocated. He didn’t want any item to have a change of location. If anything was taken, it must be put back where it was.
It was mentioned that Mariana had a nickname “Monkey” and that everyone used this nickname for her.
I don’t know if the nickname “Monkey” for Mariana had a sexual connotation; maybe that’s why they brought it up.
Frank Parlato 
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The better question is why Barbara, while standing on line waiting to enter the courthouse, can be heard extolling the “virtues” of Keith with what is coming to light-
Yet she wants the “best” of NXIVM to be preserved.
Folks, there is no best. Save your money, spend 20 bucks on a self-help book instead. Don’t enslave yourself to any of NXIVM’S plagarized schlock.
Remember Sarah was warned off moving to the area. That those who did fare badly.
Viva executive success my a$$!
G,
Barbara really said that-
I believe you G. It is incredible sad that Barbara is still drinking the KoolAid after all this time.
“Raniere jokes about people “fucking” sheep and goats.”
Keith Raniere practiced Animal Husbandry until he was caught at it.
“Vicente testified that Keith was very particular about where things should be in the library. He didn’t want anything relocated. He didn’t want any item to have a change of location. If anything was taken, it must be put back where it was.”
Maybe there were strategically placed hidden cameras.
I took that testimony as a reinforcement of the fact that the hard drive confiscated by the FBI was not concealed but left out in the open and never displaced. I was wondering about the timeframe between when the video was shot and the raid took place, however, if that was the reason to ask Vicente about that. Maybe Aggie’s motion to suppress the admission of the hard drive as evidence necessitated or served as a reason (depending on who’s side Agnifilo is on) to admit the video to begin with- More power to the truth, regardless. Good the beast was unmasked in his natural habitat.
What we know so far from the testimony”
1. Raniere had unconventional and unpopular political views.
This is NOT a crime.
2. Raniere’s cult overcharged for worthless courses.
Again this is NOT a crime.
3. Raniere’s cult like Scientology collected information on his followers to manipulate them.
Since Scientology has done this same collection for over sixty years and has not been prosecuted the criminality of this practice is debatable.
And the Catholic Church has been using Confessionals for hundreds of years.
4. Raniere is a rude, crude juvenile man.
A very unpleasant man.
These traits, while disgusting, are NOT criminal.
In fact they raise more questions about the people who so religiously followed this troll of a man.
5. Raniere is a very ignorant man who is proud of his ignorance.
Raniere’s ignorance is NOT a crime.
In fact this point raises more questions about the ignorance of Raniere’s closest followers who regarded Raniere as a great philosopher.
6. Many people who should have known better, people like MARK VICENTE, enabled Raniere for years.
What needs to be asked and answered:
WHY THE COURT SYSTEM OF NEW YORK ON FEDERAL AND STATE LEVELS CONNIVED WITH RANIERE AND NXIVM TO PERSECUTE PEOPLE FOR YEARS.
I understand why a dunce like Allison Mack lacked the brains to realize what a huckster Raniere is.
Why were the college educated lawyers and Judges of New York State willing to enable Raniere and NXIVM in a Reign of Terror for twenty years-
And why are the elites of Mexico, who rule that downtrodden country with an Iron Fist, so enamored with Raniere and NXIVM-
The justice system isn’t supposed to take sides. I don’t blame the justice system when Amway sued me for no legitimate reason.
The Mexican elites are pedos and like to launder money, among other things, so it makes sense Raniere was seen as a partner in crime.
Anyone who’s been on FR for more than a week — especially before your comments were being laboriously edited — knows exactly why Amway sued you. And why Twitter banned you for that matter.
You are right. They are gonna get him with RICO in the end. All this sex cult bulshit is only to warm up the jury against the monster. He will rot in prisson while his lawyers maka a looot of money praising his idiotic Gospel.
The defense is going to try to present Raniere as a sympathetic character, rather than necessarily directly address the crimes he’s accused of, so the prosecution has to counter that – as well as, of course, laying out the actual crimes. Plus it also sort of goes to laying the groundwork for addressing the issue of Raniere’s state of mind, and to what extent he knew what he was doing was wrong or illegal. It may in some ways seem unfortunate that both sides can’t just stick to the facts, but that’s the system we’ve got where they have relatively free reign to make their case, and jurors are just people off the street not particularly trained in the nuances of weighing evidence.
I’d say that Raniere’s, the Bronfmans’ and the NXIVM’s ability to use the system to get away with what they did, stems as much as anything from a trend towards laissez-faire beliefs that market forces and cash should decide everything, including politics and even the law, favoring those with a superior ability to garner wealth. Just as the brakes are being removed on money in politics, there have been no safeguards put in place to prevent the increasing trend of those with deep pockets using the legal system to harass whomever they choose, or even buy their own way out of trouble.
It’s not a trend, the rich have gotten away with murder, both literally and figuratively, since the beginning of humans being on the planet.
Amen, Anony.
Btw, you’re mostly spot on for me but I was about to go back to another post where, IMHO, you wrongly opine that Allison Mack didn’t like or get along with women.
Unless you can site a different source, I presume the only basis you have for that might be something you picked up from dweedle dee and dweedle dumb on here that’s just not fair to Allison. She seems to have had many female friends and admirers, in fact, and no motive for any misogyny — anything beyond some normal competitiveness over a man KAR &
Salzman well knew how to use to their advantage — that caused her to want to put the girls in pain. In fact, Allison was so popular they had her threatening the slaves that she, Allison herself, would suffer if didn’t perform.
That’s far from any depiction or suggestion the ill-intent toward women originated with her — as assumed in that response.
Please ignore Shadow and Scott’s misogynistic shit in your analysis. They know nothing but hate. They are intruders who don’t speak for anyone else on FR, certainly not myself.
“Please ignore Shadow and Scott’s misogynistic shit in your analysis. They know nothing but hate. They are intruders who don’t speak for anyone else on FR, certainly not myself.”
The mic just rolled under the couch. LOL
Mack loved other women, especially when they were writhing in pain under the “doctor’s” cauterizing pen without anesthetic for a half hour near their pubic region, one of the most sensitive areas on the body. I wouldn’t even consider doing such a thing, and I’m the one who hates women- Heidi needs a checkup from the neck up. LOL
Heidi,
Allison liked other women so much that she used India as a sex slave.
Truth be told Allison is as evil and misogynistic as Raniere.
It is amazing how even very clever and old people can get taken in by these kinds of cults and also by scammers particularly as he wasn’t appealing from what was described of today. You might understand if it he were charming but he seems crude and utterly unlikeable from that video although perhaps he was hardly ever like that which is why the prosecution are concentrating on the video rather than others that might show him in a better light.
As for why authorities ofte don’t intervene – they are difficult cases to bring until you have a clear specific crime – with the sannyasins/ Bhaghan etc it was tax evasion and poisoning the water suppy; with the FLDS it was sex and marriage with a 12 year old, child labour and food stamps fraud; but when groups like this are a bit more careful and stick within the law then as you say a lot of their actions are perfectly lawful – stupid courses for people with money to waste, load of rubbish philosophies that most normal people would not go anywhere near etc etc.
The fascinating bit with this group is that part of it was supposedly there to help women and yet it did things that would make most bright women run a mile – suggesting we can have one men whilst men can have loads of women; that we are riven with all kinds of fault etc etc… All very negative and the opposite of female empowerment.
Kid fucker.
The revengeful devil within me is enjoying that this fraud is being exposed as a complete fraud not only to people I cared about who were a part of this cult, but to the entire country, and possibly even the world.
When you use ethics as a tool but don’t actually believe in what you’re saying to manipulate others (hypocrisy) those ethics come back around to bite you in the ass.
And to Mark: WTF were you thinking- Once you saw this type of behavior from your so-called ethical guru, you should have left right then and there. Do you think Jesus or Buddha acted like this- Come on man.
Gross.
“And to Mark: WTF were you thinking- ”
Everyone of Raniere’s most devout followers should be asked this question.
WTF were you thinking-
Vicente did not live in Clifton Park.
Clare, Allison, Nancy and Lauren. did live in Clifton Park.
They experienced Raniere’s behavior all of the time.
They also experienced the power Raniere gave them.
Power can be as addicting as sex.
Renaire and the mini vanguard Del Negro used ethics to manipulate many women. Why are the police not charging Delnegro- He has laundered money proven in testimonies. Was the chief co-conspirator in all of this. Why has Frank Report not done a thorough investigation and demand justice of this evil half man demonic person. Why-
Frank can only report what he can uncover or what others provide him. What information do you have, and have you given it to Frank and the FBI-
Who knows . I’m guessing they flipped him and he’ll testify against KR.
Nope, Shadowstate1958: Mark Vicente lived on 13 Twilight Drive, Clifton Park, as far as I know for several years. He traveled often to L.A. and Vancouver.
“Mark Vicente lived on 13 Twilight Drive, Clifton Park, as far as I know for several years. He traveled often to L.A. and Vancouver.”
Then that gives Mark Vicente even less of an excuse for being unaware of Raniere’s megalomania and psychopathology.
That is baaaaaad.
“That is baaaaaad.”
Saratoga County: Where men are Men and Sheep are Nervous.
Monkey is usually a racist term.
Not always.
Sometimes parents use the term playfully to describe their kids.
And there is the phrase “Spank the Monkey.”
My sexual abuser went to jail for touching my monkey.
“My sexual abuser went to jail for touching my monkey.”
If he did it without your consent, he should have.
And if you weren’t old enough to consent he should have.
It would be very interesting to read a description of Keith’s reactions while witnessing Mark Vicente’s testimony.
That video once again shows Mr. “integration” as stuck at a late adolescent developmental state, with a number of strange fixations.
It all reminds me of the “crazy wisdom” rationalization made for various gurus who were supposed to be transmitting wisdom while turning out to be behaving like bad boys, particularly some of the Tibetan Buddhists. Scientologists engage in somewhat similar apologism regarding their “tech” and its founder Hubbard, who in recent years has exposed for a criminal past including fraud, marital and family problems, a pattern of virtual pathological lying about his actual credentials and accomplishments, and various other shortcomings and transgressions, which get rationalized away as somehow irrelevant to his supposed teachings about things like ethics and ultimate truth.
Vicente seems able to ignore or rationalize away almost anything, but then again this wasn’t the first strange guru he’d fallen for. What the Bleep Do We Know!- was largely inspired by his following of “Ramtha” channeler J. Z. Knight and her “school of wisdom;” they were known for gatherings she led where lots of wine drinking was part of the ritual, and in recent years there has been some video exposing a drunken Knight making very offensive statements at the events.
The ability of NXIVM to draw from the upper classes of Mexico is an interesting phenomenon, and perhaps indicative of some cultural difference – I’ve heard it said that similar sorts of cults are more common or more popular in Mexico. Though NXIVM in the US did have the Bronfmans, and Pam Cafritz.
Re. Mexico, check out the story of the “healing waters” of Tlacote, MX. Fertile ground indeed for cults, miracles, and superstition.
People in Central America are very superstitious. Even the “Christians” mix it with local voodoo and other primitive beliefs.
When Desi Arnaz sang his signature song Babalu, he was singing to the African Goddess of sickness and health.
This is part of the religion of Santiera (Santería) which mixes African religion with Roman Catholicism.
Scott, as a Texan you should be familiar with the Murder of Mark Kilroy.
On 14 March 1989, University of Texas at Austin student Mark Kilroy was kidnapped in Matamoros, Tamaulipas, Mexico, while vacationing during spring break. He was taken by his abductors to a ranch where he was tortured and sodomized for hours before being murdered in a human sacrifice ritual. Kilroy was killed with a machete blow and then had his brain removed and boiled in a pot. His killers then inserted a wire through his backbone, chopped off his legs, and buried him at the ranch along with 14 other people who had been killed there before him. Adolfo Constanzo, the leader of the cult, told his followers that human sacrifice granted them immunity from law enforcement for their drug smuggling operations.
Murder of Mark Kilroy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Mark_Kilroy
Yes, Judge Nicholas Garaufis, let’s let more illegal aliens into the country.
Yes, Judge Garaufis, stop President Trump from enforcing the nation’s immigration laws.
Christianity strikes me as being plenty superstitious. Miracles, angels, legends of walking on water and living in the belly of a whale, ad nauseum. And plenty of Christians take these stories literally.
I remember visiting a Mexican church, the statue of a saint was festooned with little slips of paper. The faithful say prayers and stick these on, hoping for divine favors. Well, to each his own I guess, but this makes it easier for me to understand how people in Albany NY believed their Vanguard could control the weather with his brain.
You have to be from the upper class in Mexico in order to afford the classes. Or, you can sell your body, as the Mexican family of three girls and one boy did.
“That video once again shows Mr. “integration” as stuck at a late adolescent developmental state”
Hey Nancy – Is it possible he’s stuck at age 16-
That fact that Keith had sex at all let alone with any willing partners grosses me out so much. He’s such a disgusting little man. But how did any of these guys get sex- Del Negro, Lucas Roberts, the Mexican men in NXIVM who are still in it. It confounds me that any woman could sleep with them.
Keith Raniere is rude, crude and juvenile.
An ignorant man who is proud of his ignorance.
A truly despicable person.
The video makes one wonder why any human being would follow him or regard him as wise.
Raniere’s closest followers, those who lived in Knox Woods, had to know of Raniere’s madness.
The video raises questions about the sanity of Raniere’s closest followers.
All that said nothing in this testimony or evidence is illegal.
If people want to follow this immoral pig, then that is their choice.
As for the hard drive, if there is anything illegal on it then that case should be charged in the NDNY.
The specific charge, such as possession of child porn, should be tried in NDNY, but the RICO charges can use that underlying evidence of RICO crimes.
What we know so far from the testimony”
1. Raniere had unconventional and unpopular political views.
This is NOT a crime.
2. Raniere’s cult overcharged for worthless courses.
Again this is NOT a crime.
3. Raniere’s cult like Scientology collected information on his followers to manipulate them.
Since Scientology has done this same collection for over sixty years and has not been prosecuted the criminality of this practice is debatable.
And the Catholic Church has been using Confessionals for hundreds of years.
4. Raniere is a rude, crude juvenile man.
A very unpleasant man.
These traits, while disgusting, are NOT criminal.
In fact they raise more questions about the people who so religiously followed this troll of a man.
5. Raniere is a very ignorant man who is proud of his ignorance.
Raniere’s ignorance is NOT a crime.
In fact this point raises more questions about the ignorance of Raniere’s closest followers who regarded Raniere as a great philosopher.
6. Many people who should have known better, people like MARK VICENTE, enabled Raniere for years.
What needs to be asked and answered:
WHY THE COURT SYSTEM OF NEW YORK ON FEDERAL AND STATE LEVELS CONNIVED WITH RANIERE AND NXIVM TO PERSECUTE PEOPLE FOR YEARS.
I understand why a dunce like Allison Mack lacked the brains to realize what a huckster Raniere is.
Why were the college educated lawyers and Judges of New York State willing to enable Raniere and NXIVM in a Reign of Terror for twenty years?
And why are the elites of Mexico, who rule that downtrodden country with an Iron Fist, so enamored with Raniere and NXIVM?
The justice system isn’t supposed to take sides. I don’t blame the justice system when Amway sued me for no legitimate reason.
The Mexican elites are pedos and like to launder money, among other things, so it makes sense Raniere was seen as a partner in crime.
Kid fucker.
The revengeful devil within me is enjoying that this fraud is being exposed as a complete fraud not only to people I cared about who were a part of this cult, but to the entire country, and possibly even the world.
When you use ethics as a tool but don’t actually believe in what you’re saying to manipulate others (hypocrisy) those ethics come back around to bite you in the ass.
And to Mark: WTF were you thinking? Once you saw this type of behavior from your so-called ethical guru, you should have left right then and there. Do you think Jesus or Buddha acted like this? Come on man.
Gross.
“And to Mark: WTF were you thinking? ”
Everyone of Raniere’s most devout followers should be asked this question.
WTF were you thinking?
Vicente did not live in Clifton Park.
Clare, Allison, Nancy and Lauren. did live in Clifton Park.
They experienced Raniere’s behavior all of the time.
They also experienced the power Raniere gave them.
Renaire and the mini vanguard Del Negro used ethics to manipulate many women. Why is the police not charging Delnegro? He has laundered money proven in testimonies. Was the chief co conspirator in all of this. Why has Frank Report not done a thorough investigation and demand justice of this evil half man demonic person. Why?
Nope, Shadowstate1958: Mark Vicente lived on 13 Twilight Drive, Clifton Park, as far as I know for several years. He traveled often to L.A. and Vancouver.
That is baaaaaad.
Monkey is usually a racist term.
Not always.
Sometimes parents use the term playfully to describe their kids.
And there is the phrase “Spank the Monkey.”
My sexual abuser went to jail for touching my monkey.
It would be very interesting to read a description of Keith’s reactions while witnessing Mark Vicente’s testimony.
That video once again shows Mr. “integration” as stuck at a late adolescent developmental state, with a number of strange fixations.
It all reminds me of the “crazy wisdom” rationalization made for various gurus who were supposed to be transmitting wisdom while turning out to be behaving like bad boys, particularly some of the Tibetan Buddhists. Scientologists engage in somewhat similar apologism regarding their “tech” and its founder Hubbard, who in recent years has exposed for a criminal past including fraud, marital and family problems, a pattern of virtual pathological lying about his actual credentials and accomplishments, and various other shortcomings and transgressions, which get rationalized away as somehow irrelevant to his supposed teachings about things like ethics and ultimate truth.
Vicente seems able to ignore or rationalize away almost anything, but then again this wasn’t the first strange guru he’d fallen for. What the Bleep Do We Know!? was largely inspired by his following of “Ramtha” channeler J. Z. Knight and her “school of wisdom;” they were known for gatherings she led where lots of wine drinking was part of the ritual, and in recent years there has been some video exposing a drunken Knight making very offensive statements at the events.
The ability of NXIVM to draw from the upper classes of Mexico is an interesting phenomenon, and perhaps indicative of some cultural difference – I’ve heard it said that similar sorts of cults are more common or more popular in Mexico. Though NXIVM in the US did have the Bronfmans, and Pam Cafritz.
Re. Mexico, check out the story of the “healing waters” of Tlacote, MX. Fertile ground indeed for cults, miracles, and superstition.
People in Central America are very superstitious. Even the “Christians” mix it with local voodoo and other primitive beliefs.
You have to be from the upper class in Mexico in order to afford the classes. Or, you can sell your body, as the Mexican family of three girls and one boy did.
“That video once again shows Mr. “integration” as stuck at a late adolescent developmental state”
Hey Nancy – Is it possible he’s stuck at age 16?
That fact that Keith had sex at all let alone with any willing partners grosses me out so much. He’s such a disgusting little man. But how did any of these guys get sex? Del Negro, Lucas Roberts, the Mexican men in NXIVM who are still in it. It confounds me that any woman could sleep with them.
Keith Raniere is rude, crude and juvenile.
An ignorant man who is proud of his ignorance.
A truly despicable person.
The video makes one wonder why any human being would follow him or regard him as wise.
Raniere’s closest followers, those who lived in Knox Woods, had to know of Raniere’s madness.
The video raises questions about the sanity of Raniere’s closest followers.
All that said nothing in this testimony or evidence is illegal.
If people want to follow this immoral pig, then that is their choice.
As for the hard drive, if there is anything illegal on it then that case should be charged in the NDNY.
The specific charge, such as possession of child porn, should be tried in NDNY, but the RICO charges can use that underlying evidence of RICO crimes.