The Government submitted its proposed jury questionnaire to the court on April 2, 2019.
Keith Raniere, Clare Bronfman, Allison Mack, and Kathy Russell have in substance agreed to the questions. As ordered by Judge Nicholas G. Garaufis, the questionnaires will be ready for 500 potential jurors to fill out on Monday, April 8, 2019.
The names of potential jurors and selected jurors will apparently be shielded until after the trial is over. Additional precautions may be taken to shield jurors’ names until after the trial.
The prosecution is estimating the trial will last 8-10 weeks. So, if it starts on time, we should have a verdict by mid-July.
The prosecution has renamed the case to include Raniere’s titles of “Master” and “Grandmaster” – just in time for the jury questionnaire.
The case is now officially called
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
-v- KEITH RANIERE,
also known as “Vanguard,”
“Grandmaster,” and
“Master,”
-v- KEITH RANIERE,
also known as “Vanguard,”
“Grandmaster,” and
“Master,”
CLARE BRONFMAN,
ALLISON MACK,
KATHY RUSSELL and
LAUREN SALZMAN,
Defendants.
ALLISON MACK,
KATHY RUSSELL and
LAUREN SALZMAN,
Defendants.
Case no: 18 CR 204 (S-2) (NGG)
***
According to the jury questionnaire, there may be evidence introduced about the following topics:
– Abortions;
– Self-help programs;
– Scientology, Landmark Forum, etc.;
– Multiple sexual partners;
– Sexually explicit images and language;
– Secret societies, rituals, and cults;
– Illegal immigrants;
– Rich people;
– People who didn’t pay taxes; and
– People who have had “body modifications” (such as tattoos and brandings).
Here’s a list of the feds who have worked on this case:
(i) Assistant United States Attorney Moira Penza
(ii) Assistant United States Attorney Tanya Hajjar
(iii) Assistant United States Attorney Mark J. Lesko
(iv) Assistant United States Attorney Kevin Trowel
(v) Assistant United States Attorney Karin Orenstein
(vi) Paralegal Specialist Teri Carby
(vii) Michael Weniger, Special Agent, FBI
(viii) Michael Lever, Special Agent, FBI
(ix) Delise Jeffrey, Special Agent, FBI
(x) Charles Fontanelli, Task Force Officer, FBI/New York State Police
(xi) Megan Buckley, Special Agent, Homeland Security Investigations
(xii) Christopher Munster, Special Agent, Homeland Security Investigations
(xiii) Richard Guerci, Investigator, U.S. Attorney’s Office
(xiv) Kathleen Fiato, Special Agent, IRS
(xv) Patrick Griffee, Special Agent, IRS
Here is the list of defense attorneys who will be on the case [barring plea deals]
(i) Marc Agnifilo, Esq.
(ii) Teny Geragos, Esq.
(iii) Paul DerOhannesian, Esq.
(iv) Danielle Smith, Esq.
(v) Mark Geragos, Esq.
(vi) Kathleen Cassidy, Esq.
(vii) Alexandra Shapiro, Esq.
(viii) Fabian Thayamballi, Esq.
(ix) Justine Harris, Esq.
(x) Amanda Ravich, Esq.
(xi) William McGovern, Esq.
(xii) Sean Buckley, Esq.
(xiii) Matthew Menchel, Esq.
(ii) Teny Geragos, Esq.
(iii) Paul DerOhannesian, Esq.
(iv) Danielle Smith, Esq.
(v) Mark Geragos, Esq.
(vi) Kathleen Cassidy, Esq.
(vii) Alexandra Shapiro, Esq.
(viii) Fabian Thayamballi, Esq.
(ix) Justine Harris, Esq.
(x) Amanda Ravich, Esq.
(xi) William McGovern, Esq.
(xii) Sean Buckley, Esq.
(xiii) Matthew Menchel, Esq.
*****
Here’s an interesting paragraph:
Here’s a very interesting question from the Jury Questionnaire:
“Some government witnesses may testify that they participated in serious crimes themselves including forced labor and identity theft. These witnesses, who may be referred to during trial as “cooperating witnesses,” may have pleaded guilty to crimes and may be testifying pursuant to agreements with the government in hopes that their own sentences will be reduced. Do you have any opinions or beliefs about cooperating witnesses who are seeking a reduced sentence that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial in considering their testimony?”
***
In total, there are 87 questions on the proposed jury questionnaire. Many of them are standard questions likely asked of jurors on criminal cases.
But some are specific to this case. These questions reveal a lot – including the probable direction the prosecution will take on the case:
32. Have you or anyone close to you ever participated in any self-help programs or read any
self-help books?
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
If yes, please state which program(s)/book(s) and describe your (or the other person’s)
experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
If yes as to you, what did you hope to get out of the experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
self-help books?
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
If yes, please state which program(s)/book(s) and describe your (or the other person’s)
experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
If yes as to you, what did you hope to get out of the experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
33. Have you or anyone close to you ever taken any Scientology courses?
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
If yes, please describe your (or the other person’s) experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
34. Have you or anyone close to you ever participated in a Landmark Forum, EST or anything
you view as similar?
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
If yes, please describe your (or the other person’s) experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
you view as similar?
Yes (self) _______ Yes (other) _______ No _______
If yes, please describe your (or the other person’s) experience?
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
35. There may be evidence in this case about people engaging in relationships with multiple
sexual partners. Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as
a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
sexual partners. Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as
a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
36. There may be evidence in this case about abortions. Would hearing about that type of
evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
37. There may be evidence in this case that includes sexually explicit images and language.
Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial
juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial
juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
38. There may be evidence in this case about fraternities, sororities, secret societies, rituals, or
cults. Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and
impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
cults. Would hearing about that type of evidence affect your ability to serve as a fair and
impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
39. There may be evidence in this case about people who were in the United States illegally.
Do you have any opinions regarding illegal immigration that would affect your ability to
serve as a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Do you have any opinions regarding illegal immigration that would affect your ability to
serve as a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
40. There may be evidence in this case about rich individuals. Do you have any opinions
regarding rich individuals that would affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial
juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
regarding rich individuals that would affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial
juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
41. There may be evidence in this case about people who did not pay taxes. Do you have any
opinions regarding people who do not pay taxes that would affect your ability to serve as
a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
opinions regarding people who do not pay taxes that would affect your ability to serve as
a fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
42. There may be evidence in this case about skin modifications (such as tattoos and branding).
(a) Do you have any body modifications?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please describe.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
(a) Do you have any body modifications?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please describe.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
(b) Would hearing about evidence of body modifications affect your ability to serve as a
fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_____________________
fair and impartial juror in this case?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_____________________
44. Are you now, or have you ever been, a registered sex offender or ordered by a court to
register as a sex offender?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
register as a sex offender?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
45. Have you or has anyone close to you ever sought treatment (court-ordered or otherwise)
for sex addiction or sexual deviance?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
for sex addiction or sexual deviance?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
46. Is anyone close to you a registered sex offender?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain who and the circumstances?
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
If yes, do you believe his/her designation as a sex offender is unfair?
______________
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain who and the circumstances?
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
If yes, do you believe his/her designation as a sex offender is unfair?
______________
47. Have you or anyone close to you ever been the victim of incest, child molestation, or child
abuse?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
abuse?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
48. Have you or anyone close to you ever been the victim of sexual assault, including date
rape?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
rape?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
49. If you answered yes to question 47 or 48, do you believe that would affect your ability to
serve as a fair and impartial juror?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
serve as a fair and impartial juror?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
50. Have you ever known anyone who you believe was falsely accused of sexual abuse or
sexual assault of a minor or an adult?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
sexual assault of a minor or an adult?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
51. Do you worry about you or someone close to you being falsely accused of sexual abuse or
sexual assault?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
sexual assault?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
52. If you answered yes to question 50 or 51, do you believe that would affect your ability to
serve as a fair and impartial juror?
serve as a fair and impartial juror?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
53. Do you believe that people under seventeen should be able to consent to sex with adults?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain.
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
54. Have you heard of the “#MeToo” movement?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, what is your opinion of the “#MeToo” movement?
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, what is your opinion of the “#MeToo” movement?
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
67. This case is likely to receive ongoing media attention. The Court wants to make sure that
this case is decided solely on the evidence presented in the courtroom and not based on
influences outside the courtroom. The Court will be advising you daily that you must avoid
reading about the Case on the Internet, in newspapers or listening to any radio or television
reports about the case. The Court will further advise you not to discuss the case with family
or friends during the trial or with your fellow jurors until it is time to deliberate. Would
these restrictions pose any difficulty for you?
Yes __________ No __________
If yes, please explain: ______________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
this case is decided solely on the evidence presented in the courtroom and not based on
influences outside the courtroom. The Court will be advising you daily that you must avoid
reading about the Case on the Internet, in newspapers or listening to any radio or television
reports about the case. The Court will further advise you not to discuss the case with family
or friends during the trial or with your fellow jurors until it is time to deliberate. Would
these restrictions pose any difficulty for you?
Yes __________ No __________
If yes, please explain: ______________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
68. The charges in this case involve allegations of, among other things, sex trafficking, forced
labor, child pornography and child exploitation. Is there anything about the nature of these
allegations that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial?
Yes __________ No __________
If yes, please explain: __________________
labor, child pornography and child exploitation. Is there anything about the nature of these
allegations that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial?
Yes __________ No __________
If yes, please explain: __________________
78. You may hear testimony from certain individuals that the government alleges are victims.
A victim’s testimony is not to be given any more or less credence than any other witness’s
testimony, just because that person is an alleged victim. Do you have any opinions or
beliefs about alleged victims that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial in
considering their testimony?
Yes ________ No ________
If yes, please explain: ______________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________
A victim’s testimony is not to be given any more or less credence than any other witness’s
testimony, just because that person is an alleged victim. Do you have any opinions or
beliefs about alleged victims that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial in
considering their testimony?
Yes ________ No ________
If yes, please explain: ______________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________
79. Some government witnesses may testify that they participated in serious crimes themselves
including forced labor and identity theft. These witnesses, who may be referred to during
trial as “cooperating witnesses,” may have pleaded guilty to crimes and may be testifying
pursuant to agreements with the government in hopes that their own sentences will be
reduced. Do you have any opinions or beliefs about cooperating witnesses who are seeking
a reduced sentence that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial in
considering their testimony?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain:
including forced labor and identity theft. These witnesses, who may be referred to during
trial as “cooperating witnesses,” may have pleaded guilty to crimes and may be testifying
pursuant to agreements with the government in hopes that their own sentences will be
reduced. Do you have any opinions or beliefs about cooperating witnesses who are seeking
a reduced sentence that would make it difficult for you to be fair and impartial in
considering their testimony?
Yes _______ No _______
If yes, please explain:
________________________________________________
______________________
______________________
***
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
Please leave a comment: Your opinion is important to us!
How long does Allison Mack have to make a plea deal?
Can she make one on April 29th?
She can make one during the trial.
Plea deals can be made at any time – even during the trial. And some courts have allowed defendants who take a deal mid-trial to become cooperating witnesses against their former co-defendants.
Good to know, Claviger. Lowers my BP over the Ally whacking that’s going on — relatively speaking.
You’re welcome.
Terminations from ectopic pregnancies – caused by the trauma of branding? Always wondered about this.
clarebear should have Michael Avenatti Esq on her defense …….rumor is …he hasn’t paid taxes in over TEN YEARS !
These 87 questions demonstrate that NXIVM was one of the biggest Freak Shows in American history.
It would include Mexico but the Mexican criminals all ran back to their country.
It appears the DOJ either considers it not worth their time/money to deal with trying to extradite them or couldn’t.
Let’s hope warrants are out for their arrests if they cross back over into US territory and the fear of this keeps the Mexican freaks in their own country.
Seems to me that Nexium has perfected the feminism, white race supremacy and criminal enterprise. ( I’m talking about white race as gods outside the western world, this is a fact – ask the guys who went southeast asia to marry girls and the G.I stationed abroad. ). Nexium proved that they can get away with everything without suspicion from the public and government. Look at Manhattan and the hamptons, those nannies are 80 percent illegals the authorities knows this, in fact NYPD database is used to scan these people but this is not a crime. So is feminist wicked behavior, in this #metoo era people will give their sympathy to KAR and et al.
It will be interesting to see how this case will unfold. Women who abuse men verbally and succeeded on reducing the man to a being with no self esteem, eventually that man turn to alcohol, drugs and suicide. This kind of case is extremely hard to prove in court. However, this happen regularly in the west ( a ceo who is supposed to be a billionaire now a fraud ). Domestic violence conviction is mostly men as the guilty party. KAR and et al, have the formula to manipulate feminist behavior into a criminal enterprise. Soon enough criminal enterprise like this will be headed by educated and rich women with men reining the enterprise behind the scenes. Deception works better on women, they will at worst get a house arrest if men is not in the scenario.
Once this case will close everything else wont be touch. Nexuim offshoot will bloom world wide, names will be change with the same modus. Perky educated teenagers will be hired from third world countries to be a sex slave. These women will do everything in bed willingly if they want to get that green card. This is a new form of complicated sex trafficking. I just hope that we are where we at in my mind, so this world can burn faster than expected.
Third world country do not know how to handle feminist behavior incorporated in crime, we do not have the technology to prove women’s vileness. As I have observe this has a terrible implication in the society, one worth mentioning is STD. Criminal enterprise like NXVIM is unstoppable abroad because the money it generate can buy off politicians, the modus creates a situation where everyone can be tangled in the web, the benefit is a dream come true, imagine a real sin city who would not love to go there!?
Laws need to be improvise in order to catch up with the deception, i just realized that KAR and et al, will receive lighter sentence than expected, this is also a challenge for the FEDS.
It did not occur to me that women’s cuntness tolerated by men will burn this world to oblivion. Now I understand the saying ” Evil prevails because good men do nothing. ” But then again from my keen observation, what can a good man do?
Ka-lel : who must quit the modern wordl, stop to read internet and start to be a renunciate monk. I think you ll be much happier, and you will spare us with your long unberable medieval meditations on gender and sex
Unless an I.Q. test will be administered priorly, the efficacy of this questionnaire and of the jurors as a group at trial time, will be as solid as a limp… &%$#! It’d be a real uphill struggle presenting a convincing case that a randomly chosen group of American citizens have the wits to comprehend more than 30% of the questionnaire’s contents. I’m trying to be extremely polite and generous. Unless every single juror will be selected based on preset and clear demographic criteria, the trial is likely to generate many irrelevant findings and looney outcomes.
AllenRubens,
You are right about juries.
I believe the defendants were confident and steadfast until the sex tape of Keith Raniere with an underage girl emerged; Then the rats started making plea deals to get of metaphorical sinking ship. .
This is better than watching a good documentary. Plus more educational if one likes details AND has a solid memory amongst other traits! With the amount of shit hitting the industrial fan here, I am sure something of at least equal gravity would have surfaced to blow a cavity in the ship, had it not been for the paedophile ‘sexy time’ revelations, as Sasha B. Cohen would say. I can’t see any defendants regardless of having taken plea deals, not getting any jail time. Maybe one or two might get suspended jail sentences under the rosiest of scenarios.
All of the defendants have done too nasty of things for too long to too many people to get no prison time, in my humble opinion. In fact, I think that’s why it took them so long to plea, the DOJ wasn’t offering very attractive deals.
Another Insightful “Alex” (maybe you?) on FR pointed out that “The Rat” revealed KAR forced a very young Mexican boy, Adrian Fernandez I believe, aka “Fluffy” to film and photograph his also underaged sisters having sex with KAR.
These and other “RAT” revelations were made on “Saratoga-In-Decline,” John Tighe’s Blog, back in 2009-2010. (Idk if they’re still or were ever on the way-back-machine — there are some curious deletions.).
Court filings since reveal that Clare Bronfman, Nancy and Lauren Salzman, and Kathy Russell knew what The Rat knew and exposed — that KAR was sexual exploiting children.
They all knew (save maybe Allison as the specified incidents re: the Fernandez family in 2005 predated her joining NX) there was possibly hard evidence of these heinous crimes in existence — the porno videos the children were forced to make — but believed that somehow — perhaps with a little expert evidence tampering (the NX computers were supposedly wiped clean since — as KAR ordered Karen U. and the techies like Steve Ose and Ben Myers to do — or Clare’s purchase of a “Geragos” pedophile Savior and an Avenatti” — another world-class pimp, albeit, unfortunately as clumsy as they at extortion (not to leave out AgniStealio, either) — their lies and alibis would or will prevail at trial. And, still may, of course, under this latest Mexican strategy that the Ferdandez family was at-cause.
It was prolly all that little Spic perv, “Fluffy” (we know what that means in porno jargon — Fluffer, wink, wink), all his idea, and the Dad glady gave away his daughter for her quincenera fiesta in the fine tradition modernized by KAR. (“Mickey Mouse” Sarcasm intended.)
Question is, what other home movies exist where that one came from?
Which brings us back to Socrates and, say, how ‘bout we all just agree on a lower age of consent to be sexual and financially exploited? …Mickey Mouse.
Hi Heidi, Alex Rubens and I (Alex Trudel) are not the same person.
If the teenager “Fluffy” was under pressure by adults surrounding him to archive those pedophilic films, he was above all a victim himself. But if this information is true, lots of question remains about NXVIM’s child porn movies or pictures produced.
I still belive that it’s possible the the Rat (probably K Keaffe) was creating false facts (or maybe facts she wasn’t sure of) to provoque the autorities to engage in a serious legal inquiry. She herself felt trapped into the cult and was planning to escape. To alert the wold about NXVIM’s criminal activities and the evil mind of his leader was her main goal at that time, at the cost maybe of spreading rumors or hypothetical facts through Saragota in Decline.
I am not saying that it was a lie, but we just don’t know. At least, A F is now totally free from the cult (he left by his own) and he reconnected with his Jane Doe sister and his mother, both of them living in Mexico, like the 2 others sisters who are still Raniere’s devotees. Maybe one day A F will express himself an tell all the truth about the Rat’s “revelation” from 2010.
I have wondered, with the long history of NXIVM and Keith engaging in sex with multiple partners over 2 decades or so, if abortion was a standard practice of this group and how it was explained to the pregnant woman.
We know in Scientology’s Sea Org abortion is a standard practice thus one wonders how come there aren’t multiple avatar babies running around with Keith’s genes?
Or, omg, I just had a thought.
What if Keith, the narcissist that we know he is, what if all the male babies were aborted because he saw them as potential competition? Narcissist fathers often perceive their sons as such.
Would Heidi or Barbara be privy to knowing if abortion was a standard practice of NXIVM?
he feeling the compulsion to abort male … kinda makes him very Chronos no?
Sadly, g, abortion was so prevalent among KAR’s sex partners — done, like nearly everything else his slaves did, at KAR’s demand — that the bloody procedure substituted as a birth control method.
It was almost as if KAR reveled in getting the girls pregnant — he would boast of his “potency” on these occasions — to the extent they deliberately did not use birth control to boost KAR’s ego and prove he was “potent.”
I understand why the question about abortion is on the jury questionnaire. A pro-life juror would send them all to the gallows in view of the facts.
I hesitate to speak ill of the dead but Gina told me Pam Caffritz had over a dozen abortions even though she wanted badly to become a mother and bear a child with Keith.
But each time Keith would proclaim that Pam was not mentally stable enough (they labeled her “boo-boo head” bc she sometimes seemed disoriented) and had too many issues, uncured “disintegration’s,” to become a mother.
Once, Gina told me Keith deemed an unborn baby his or herself unworthy of being born, a potential danger to the future of the world due to past life Karma, etc. As “The Vanguard,” KAR was protecting the world from the evil fetuses.
Keith had a few choice words about my own son’s disability and my “poor decision” to not abort him, etc. even though my son was injured at, during birth, not otherwise impaired.
This is absolutely SICKENING, whether you are pro-life or not! Responsible people make at least some attempt at birth control.
Every time I think I have a reasonably good picture of this monster, it gets worse. I thought I would never say this, but his mother should have aborted HIM!! The world needs protection from the likes of KAR.
On top of it all, he seems to have been completely unfazed by the death, disease, disappearance or suffering of anyone close to him. Ice must run through his veins.
How did he allow his second son to be born?
Thanks for sharing this, Heidi.
Curious about the children conceived by other NXIVM members…..did KAR give his blessing for them to be born or participate in their naming? It just seems with every decision needing his authorization or approval and now learning about these rumored abortions, you’ve got to wonder about any child that was born to a NXIVM couple. *shivers*
My word, there seems to be no end to the depths of depravity this septic tank of humanoids would go. They make Satan look like the god damn pope. Kiddie raper got to decide who lived and died? god complex much?
This why I believe we should just put them all in a rocket and aim it at the sun. Oh, and install a camera so folks back home could watch Pedo’s response the closer it got to total incineration.
Heidi – If Pam or any other woman who wanted a child was forced to have a termination of pregnancy, it probably would have caused them grief, guilt and mental problems. Perhaps it affected Pam. Considering KAR’s teachings and beliefs however, at least he couldn’t damage more children. Also, could some of his enabler acolytes have been trusted to protect their child from KAR?
Heidi – Another thought. You said Pam seemed disoriented at times. Did Barb Jeske show any similar behaviour? I believe they were both enablers of his child grooming? I believe KAR inherited from both of them when they both died early of cancer that went untreated because of his influence. Were they slowly poisoned?
A very creepy thought, Pyriel. Some poisons cause cancer long after ingesting. I think it’s more likely the ladies were vulnerable to cancer due to insufficient diet and sleep, and maybe endless sugarless gum / drinks.
Plus, I can’t fathom Keith making a meal for anyone on the planet, so he would have had to enlist someone else to do it.
As a side note, KAR seemed to show affection – however false – to little money pots like Pam ($20,000 per month allowance or trust fund profit or whatever) and Barbara Bouchey with her $1M or so. Then, the Bronfman sisters, Plus, now he has his grubby hands on Pam’s $8M. So he would certainly seem to have that kind of motive.
Raniere doesn’t have $8 million, because he didn’t declare it. If he tries to access it now, he will be charged with making a false statement/perjury and probably prevented from getting to it.
wow. Keith got Pam pregnant at least 12 times? Seriously? That’s simply shocking! It’s really sad how much damage he caused. Keith was an extremely damaged and fragile person from early on. It’s like he devoted his energies to overly prove himself and belittle others so he could feel better about his own inadequacies. Someone once stated that he would stand outside school and show off his judo skills in front of the girls, If only he got kicked in the nuts earlier… Sigh.
I find it interesting that various sources seem to reference Scientology, or NLP and hypnosis, but rarely both (unless there’s question about the latter in the omitted part of the questionnaire). The influence of both on Raniere, and NXIVM, was very strong, and I don’t think it can be properly described and understood without considering both.*
The Landmark Forum that succeed The est Training (note the use of lower case in the name) is also something of an influence, but maybe no more so, or even less, than Amway – and is there nothing about that or pyramid schemes in general in the questionnaire?
* And I still want to know what the source was, of all the Scientology “tech” and terms; it’s well documented that Salzman was a direct source for NLP, but there has to have also been someone who had been involved in Scientology or one of its closest offshoots like Avatar (Star’s Edge).
PeaceMaker, Heidi said in a comment here that at one time Keith had Scientology materials smuggled to him.
Also, IIRC, Keith or NXIVM was communicating with Scientology during Scientology’s destruction/takeover of the Cult Awareness Network. So he may have learned some things then, such as the terminology.
Dianne, thanks for those tidbits.
Raniere might have picked up some general concepts such as “suppressives” from talking to Scientology officials about CAN. But the more I find out about NXIVM the more I see strong parallels, such as several aspects of past life beliefs, and the way “EM” sessions incorporated Dianetics’ and Scientology’s approach of trying to address past traumatic experiences in ways that often result in the euphoria of cathartic release, sound like things that would have had to have been transmitted by people with personal experience of them, working with Raniere.
Heidi’s account, which I remember now, and is reproduced below, does suggest that the transmission of ideas and techniques was deeper and more complex than just Raniere getting a hold of some materials, and that people around him may in fact have had some direct experience, though it still doesn’t satisfactorily explain the details:
Heidi: Scientology proprietary info was secreted to Keith Raniere – at his request
January 17, 2019
“In 1989, a then-devout member of Keith Alan Raniere’s small “harem” had a sister living in Los Angeles, who was the lead singer for a Scientology rock band that practiced after hours in the Scientology “Celebrity Center” in North Hollywood.
That sister was asked, begged by the KAR “harem” member to procure top secret Scientology course material for KAR.
That sister, in fact, took Scientology courses paid for by the band’s agent, a Scientologist, who convinced her Scientology was an easy road to stardom paved by Armando Anthony “Chick” Corea (a famous jazz pianist who took a liking to the sister), Priscilla and Lisa Presley, Tom Cruise, etc.., including the introductory “audit” whereby the “Sea Org” ranks of Scientology collect “collateral” or blackmail material much in the manner KAR did later.
After obtaining this material, passing it on to KAR, and breaking up with the band’s lead guitar player, that sister escaped from Scientology altogether, fortunately, but is still listed as a Scientology member from 1989 in member blacklists that can be found online.
Can anyone guess the names of the KAR “harem” member and sister who procured Scientology materials for KAR to model what would eventually become ESP/NX on?
There were other Scientology material procurements made by other KAR Harem members who followed suit and may yet be listed as former Scientology members if any detectives out there search these “blacklists,” these “spies” names may also appear therein.”
p.s. I’ve actually tried cross-referencing a few names of Raniere’s early female acolytes in the Scientology completions database, and have yet to find anything, though I see now that Heidi at least provides a few more clues
You suggest KAR ET AL appear to have a more personal relationship with Scientology as well. I agree.
Remember when Jeff Peterson talked about how JLO’s (Jennifer Lopez’s) Hollywood stage dad, his former AZ neighbor, is a prominent Scientologist involved with Emiliano Salinas, Dennis Burke and the DNC — the Clinton’s in particular — for years?
I think it likely that there’s a Mexican Scientology / Hollywood connection through Lopez and believe KAR ET AL use the Sea Org resources through this connection to harass NX’s or KAR’s detractors or the “suppressives” — as both NX and Scientology refer to whistle blowers.
In one con, I believe, they’ve tried to convince me they are “naval intelligence” when they’re prolly in some pathetic Sea Org Scientology Uniform — not anything close to anything intelligent.
I’ve been wondering whether Alison Mack was truly behind the asking for a 30 day delay. I wonder if it was really Clare needing a stall after her latest plot fail with the crook lawyer and Alison was really just taking another for the team by asking for a delay.
Natashka,
I believe that until the porn tape was revealed and until Allison’s lawyers heard rumors that Nancy and Lauren had flipped, Allison had no intention of making a plea deal.
To understand how Allison Mack works one must appreciate that she is first and foremost a Narcissist.
Narcissists outwardly regard themselves as perfect.
A plea deal is an admission of guilt.
An admission of guilt is an acknowledgment of imperfection.
Can Allison Mack ever admit guilt in a court of law?
Perhaps, but it will take a titanic internal struggle to reach that point.
80. Have you seen the movie ‘Silence of the Lambs’ and are you familiar with the character Hannibal Lector? How would meeting him in court affect you Do you believe that would affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial juror?
81. What if Hannibal Lector named himself after a video game? Do you believe that would affect your ability to
serve as a fair and impartial juror?
Anonymous: What if Hannibal Lector named himself after a stomach acid remedy?
Keith ate the babies with fava beans
Vanguard was a videogame, i played it!
So did Raniere, that’s how he took on the name.
Yep, and during the early days of CBI, he likes to play this videogame with teenage girls to seduce them and then have sex with them.