By Max
I personally think that all these women are victims to an extent.
What Sarah Edmonson did ultimately was very brave, I’m not questioning that. But it took her months to understand the darker side of what DOS was, and from I’ve heard, discussing it with multiple people outside the group.
So my question is more, how clear would it be to a ‘reasonable’ member of DOS that what was going on was illegal?
I find it incredibly irritating when Shadow singles out Allison Mack without anything that seems credible. If I saw a video of her beating or torturing somebody, I wouldn’t be writing this. If I saw evidence of her being a pedo or selling children, I certainly wouldn’t be writing this. But so far, what I’ve gotten is that she bullied one or two people (adults) into sex.
DOS was supposed to help the women overcome their fears, right? Or at least the women believed that? Is there any indication that Allison believed otherwise? Was she ever paid specifically for anything relating to sex? Was she paid for anything in DOS at all?
I have no trouble picturing Vantard coming along and billing sex with himself as a healing technique for fears of intimacy or childhood trauma or whatever. And I could even picture Allison pressuring others to have sex with him, believing it to be for their benefit. But that’s still him exploiting everyone, including her, and her desire to help people overcome fears or whatever.
Look at the sex ring that got busted in Florida a few weeks ago. They allegedly had women locked in the back room of a massage parlor, forbidden to leave. The health inspector only had to walk through the building a couple times to see what was going on. It was obvious what was going on. It didn’t take months to figure it out. The smoking gun was right there. That’s what sex trafficking looks like. It can exist in more subtle forms too, but again my point is whether DOS members were aware of what they were participating in.
But what about the branding?
Well Allison never branded anyone, and she didn’t even recruit Edmondson into DOS.
And if branding was the crime, Dr. Danielle Roberts, who did the actual branding, would have been charged. The charges are about forced sex, and it sounds like the whole point of DOS and ESP and all of these other groups is people pushing each other’s limits.
Allison probably got bullied into sex as well. Again, I’m not condoning pressuring anyone into sex, but the difference between this group and and the sex ring mentioned above are a difference of magnitude. It just pisses me off that the DOJ charged her so much more harshly than anyone else in DOS.
Frank Parlato 
Janine Morrison 
J.J. O'Hara 
Richard Luthmann 
Marie White 
Paul Serran
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Perhaps the brandind was under a topical anesthetic?
This is all about money
Is Yolanda Cortez really Pea Brain off drugs?
Nah. Yolanda is someone who has been there/seen that, and is tired of sitting on her typing fingers. Wish more of this largish crowd would show their faces. We know u b reading dis.
Ok so just an fyi, I wrote this a couple of weeks ago before it came out that Allison was in plea negotiations. And sorry for the rambling-nature of the post, I was having a bad day for other reasons.
I would advise anyone who is interested to go and listen to the Escaping NXIVM podcast where Sarah explains why she chose to publicly defend Raniere after the Times Union article came out accusing him of pedophilia. Here’s a hint: It’s not because she condones sex with children.
I’m not suggesting Allison should get off scott free, and I certainly don’t condone luring women into DOS without telling them everything involved. I said in a post way back that 5-10 years in jail would be fair for what she did. My objection is to her being charged as a ringleader, when we all know that Raniere controlled everything. We know how good he is at at manipulating, blackmailing and abusing people, and if the evidence shows that he did those things to Allison, then IMO, she deserves some amount of leniency. But I’m not by any means saying she did nothing wrong.
What did Sarah Edmondson say about the Times Union expose?
Basically that Raniere had cultivated this idea that because they were doing such great things, there would inevitably be groups that would spread lies about them and try to bring them down. And that the ‘honorable’ thing to do when faced with a lie is to ignore it rather than to acknowledge its existence.
It sounded like he was teaching that way before 2012 when the Times Union article came out.
Raniere was taught that when he was in Amway.
So essentially, they chose to ignore facts.
Raniere controlled everything.
All Allison Mack had to do was exercise her female empowerment and tell Raniere to take a long walk off a short pier.
Could you imagine Raniere doing the dirty work of overseeing a branding?
Could you imagine Raniere doing the dirty work of wielding a hot cauterizing pen?
Raniere could do the dirty work of devouring a whole cheeseburger and little more.
I’m with you, Max.
Good thing you didn’t use your real name and aren’t ex-NXIVM. That 5-10 yrs you want Allison locked up for would cause the commenters to turn you into being Keith Alan Raniere himself.
What I really want to know more than anything in this case is to what extent the ‘brainwashing, NLP, hypnosis etc.’ affected Allison’s decisions. IMO, she either had to be extremely mind controlled …..or just so desperate for the affection of Keith that she went along with his demands. I was hoping for this to be revealed during trial or at some point – but with pleas looking likely I don’t know if I’ll get those answers. I wish Sara E. or some other defectors would better explain the mind control aspect. Also why wasn’t Nicki C. or other supposed slave holders charged? Doesn’t make sense.
THANK YOU, ANON!!! Hey Angry Commentaters (and Shadow), this is the whole fucking point. The Yolanda Cortez’s of the world are piping up because the mind control shit WAS Nxivm. These dorks that were love-bombed and mind-fucked aren’t a threat to anyone.
Any of us here could have been suckered into going to a Nxivm class. If we had either a bit of money or had a bit of fame, we would have been dodging love-bombing, mind controlling bullets.
The semi-erect psychopath on a power trip is the one who deserves most of the wrath.
All of them deserve to be punished for the crimes they committed. The “damsel in distress” schtick is so pre-feminazi movement.
Couldn’t agree more except for Nancy Saltzman carrying out the NLP….in a direction HE ordered.
https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2019/03/allison-mack-terrified-of-going-to-prison-nxivm-sex-cult-case/
Maybe Allison Mack should not have become a pimp.
Now she’s a victim?
Interesting.
I say what Ive always said.
Throw this case out of court.
These are adults.
When someone says “give me naked pictures to blackmail you with if it ever try to leave” you say no.
If someone says they’re going to brand you, you say
Nah, I’m leaving now.
The lack of accountability is staggering.
We don’t live in a world where people can be tricked into sex acts they don’t want.
No one was held captive.
And what is bullying someone into sex?
If I say no and you bully me into changing my mind,
You will only lose me as a part of your life.
Sex trafficking is a prostitution ring. Even if they orocured girls to sleep with the leaders, it isn’t trafficking.
And anyone is free to say no.
They didn’t hold anyone down and rape them.
Ive had involvement with sex cults and the truth is, everyone who is there wants to be there.
Turning around and saying I didn’t want it, they made me…
When did your legs stop working?
The ones that could have walked your ass out the door?
One of the best posts ever. Solid critical thinking.
Yolanda, do you know where Allison Mack was on the stripe path? If you also don’t mind me asking, where were you?
Yes, Yolanda Cortez, “solid critical thinking’ – for Narnia.
You Dozy closet nxer. Meanwhile IRL AM restrained unwilling victims while the incorrigible Dr. Roberts, burned an ugly sigil of her initials into an area referred to on Tattoo pain charts as ‘Suicidal’ and ‘Don’t Go There!’
Your PR game is Not Viable. Your critical thinking, risible.
Just typical intellectually sloppy apologism – such as the attempt at a false comparison to the sex trafficking ring locking women up in back rooms, and failing to address that NXIVM actually (or allegedly) did that, too.
“Max” is essentially making the case that Mack was involved in a mix of self-help and BDSM activities. But even by those standards, she still violated various norms of ethical practice, consent, and so on.
Quite a few criminals are sociopathic enough to not believe that anything they did was wrong. That doesn’t absolve them, or even others who should have known better, of responsibility.
Max,
I am glad that you are a young man concerned with the important things in life.
“It just pisses me off that the DOJ charged her so much more harshly than anyone else in DOS.” ,Mac
It’s not like helping a child molester/rapist acquire more victims is wrong or anything………
An argument can always be made, that they “are victims to an extent” – to what extent, leaves a lot of room.
If there was nothing worse about DOS than the branding, then maybe it really would stop there. But there’s the psychological abuse on top of it. Then there’s the physical abuse, including enforced diets and sleep deprivation. And beyond that there is coerced or even forced sex with Raniere, and finally beyond the pale, the recruiting of underage girls and Raniere’s having sex with them, and the teaching of the philosophy that sex with children is okay. Mack seems to have been fully on board with all of that, both an enable and a perpetrator, more so than perhaps any of the other women.
Something about her seemingly eager and aggressive adoption of the role of head mistress – even claiming that she came up with the idea of branding, rather than just tattooing – along with clues that her “collateral” has to do with sexual abuse in her family, suggests to me that she probably has a darker past, and personality, than is obvious, and may have been an abused child herself. But she is, after all, an actress, who has long charmed people with her young girl act and her almost unnatural perennial young girl look (she’s now in her mid-30s) – and could be hiding a lot under that facade. Maybe, like Raniere, she’s even a psychopath – it’s essentially part of the definition of such deviant personalities, that they are exceptionally effective at hiding their true nature and intentions, and at fooling and manipulating people.
Allison was charged harshly, because she was involved in serious crimes. There’s relatively little difference between what she did, and what those involved in human trafficking for prostitution do, other than that it wasn’t done on a commercial scale. If DOS had operated out of a commercial property rather than condos, inspectors might have found the Mexican girl locked in a room for a year and a half, too.
I think we can be more equivocal about many others, particularly in the absence of clear and incontrovertible evidence about what they knew and what they did, when and at what points.
Mack was a ringleader. So was Kook.
Certainly regarding the legitimization of the NXIVM cult. Had it not of been for them using their fame to promote the cult, DOS may never of ever existed. Their compliance helped lay the foundations. Mack is going to jail and Kreuk is a lying coward.
Allison deserves NO sympathy.
And she is reportedly terrified about going to prison.
She made her bed and now she can lay in it.
Anyone know if John Glover, who played Lex Luthor’s father in Smallville has ever spoken about Allison since the DOS stuff came out? Someone said Allison went to see him in his play the week she was arrested and in an interview some years ago, I remember she said he was the only one from Smallville she still talked to. He seems to do the convention scene but I’ve heard anytime Smallville cast are involved, questions about Allison are forbidden. One guy said when he attended a panel with Tom Welling, an announcement was made beforehand that if anyone asked about Allison, the panel would be cancelled right then and there.
“in an interview some years ago, I remember she said he was the only one from Smallville she still talked to.”
Was she not still in contact with Kristin Kook?
***
“I’ve heard anytime Smallville cast are involved, questions about Allison are forbidden. One guy said when he attended a panel with Tom Welling, an announcement was made beforehand that if anyone asked about Allison, the panel would be cancelled right then and there.”
That’s disgusting. Thats censorship. Kristin Kook will be doing a couple of these cons in May. She is too cowardly to admit her role in the cult. Will people be warned not to ask her questions about NXIVM? If they want to cancel, fine do it. Then these loser actors wont get that easy money for doing nothing, getting money for signing autographs and taking pictures with pathetic fan boy/girls.
Why wont they answer questions? Are these actors not privileged enough, they get to dictate the narrative too? Kristin Kreuk so far let off the hook and also being shielded from uncomfortable questions. They have made Allison Mack the one whose name they dare not speak, but Kristin Kreuk gets away with it?
People should ask her why she stayed with NXIVM even after being named in the pedo expose. Or being named in a NXIVM lawsuit.
What is the rest of the cast going to say, anyway, except that they don’t know much about what Mack did off set and after she left the series? I can understand that they don’t want to be harangued by people asking questions, to which they don’t have answers. And they have fans in the event who paid good money to hear about more relevant things.
Kreuk is a more fraught case. But I’m not so sure that she’s as much cowardly and culpable, as in denial and too superficially self-centered to understand the implications of what she was involved with (the extent of which is still open to debate).
NXIVM is the big elephant in the room. We don’t know if the other cast members were recruited by Kristin Kreuk or Allison Mack, though Erica Durance does know Mark Vicente, hint hint…
Laura Vandervoort knows both Kristin Kreuk and Mark Hildreth. It is very unlikely she wasn’t propositioned by either or both to join NXIVM.
There are questions regarding Kristin Kreuk that she has not answered. The fact is, she did stay a NXIVM member even after she and Mack were named in the Albany Times Union expose that went into disturbing details of Raniere’s pedophilia. They were both named in a lawsuit regarding NXIVM crimes. She is a known NXIVM member responsible for bringing in Allison Mack. For her to have the organizers warn people to not bring up NXIVM so that she can continue pretending nothing has happened, essentially hiding in plain site, is not right. It is not like it is only Allison Mack who has some explaining to do. Mack is hopefully going to jail. Kristin Kreuk receiving scrutiny from the press is a lot easier than jail time. She is a huge link in the DOS story too, for without her, there would not be a ton of women with the initials “AM” scorched above their vaginas. She has shown zero remorse, but plenty of virtue signalling about causes that have nothing to do with her. A lot of NXIVM morons are online virtue signalling about things, without even acknowledging the existence of the dirty cult. Virtue signalling is hollow. The kind of people likely to be drawn to a pretentious-as-fuck cult.
People should bring up NXIVM at any event with Kreuk. Her weak statement was deliberately misleading and lacking information about her own role and she is only concerned with preserving her privileges.
If Kristin Kreuk thinks we are going to believe she was just involved with a “self help group” and had no idea of anything wrong, from any source and only found out she was in a cult in 2017 with the branding story… think again.
Ask Bouchey. No answers are enough or believed. BB answered and was judged by the FR as evasive, lying, deluded, or even planning to restart Nx.
Ex-NXIVM people or simply those who know/knew Barbara Bouchey seem to have a negative opinion of her to begin with.
Bouchey has only very recently started posting on Frank Report. Kreuk has been spoken about for years since Saratoga In Decline. John Tigue even said Kreuk was welcome to make a statement on his blog. Kreuk has not even bothered to answer questions. If she tries to defend herself, it would be the same as her defending Allison Mack as the accusations and facts regarding Kreuk relate to Mack too. Kreuk is not a naive little fairy. She is self-centered and cowardly, as are the other silent NXIVM virtue signalers.
See above BB comment.
People here have decided KK is guilty, and no answer would satisfy or be believed.
No, Kreuk refusing to answer simple questions is her own doing. If she doesn’t answer, it makes her look suspicious. Nothing and nobody is forcing her silence. She can answer simple questions but refuses, so far.
No, it makes her look smart. Look how BB was treated here. That you (and others) could be satisfied by her answers to “simple questions” is ridiculous.
And again, by exposing your childish and lame obsession with Sultan…who I am not…you lose your credibility.
Kristin Crook looks smart. That’s a good one! LOL
You are definitely the brown spunk distributor. You can’t stop masturbating over a cultist coward. Even your fantasy spank is shit. You could fantasise about anything and you choose Kristin Kook. Sure Spanky, all these cowards are silent because of the mean commentators on the Frank Report!
Cry some more. Call the whambulance. 👳🏾♂️
Somebody should ask a question every time there’s a panel involving Mack. Who needs to hear these stupid panels, they’re just a bunch of idiots.
Allison Mack went along with Keith Raniere evil ideas. No one can made someone step over their moral compass line unless they are willing to do so because they believe they will get something out of it.
Allison Mack was sleeping with Keith Raniere. She had become his madam, female pimp.
Allison Mack decided to move from Vancouver BC and give up her career as an actor. She broke up with her boyfriend to be with her new boyfriend Keith Raniere and live ‘his ways’ in Albany NY.
Allison Mack committed a crime by having fake marriage so another one of Keith Raniere’s girl toys could stay in the US, Nicki Cline.
Alison Mack had the opportunity after Raniere’s arrest and before hers hers to work with the DOJ. She had her chance to make a plea deal early on after her arrest to make a plea deal but didnt. She choose to wait until the last week or so to even consider a deal following the lead of others of going to trial. That’s what sheep who give their minds to others do.
Is she a victim? To her own low self esteem and her own low moral compass, yes. Not everyone who walked through the doors of NXIVM broke the law or slept with the short smelly man.
Did we get conned out of thousands of dollars, yes. Did we do work for free to work our way up the stripe path that his bitches and Raniere control, yes. Did we all fall for his sex and criminal enterprise? Not even close.
I agree with you. I personally know Allie and she was placed in that position of madame because she despised women and would have done anything to be considered as special by Keith. She lied, manipulated and coerced in order to get what she wanted and please KAR. She is not innocent.
Interesting if you know her well enough to have some insight into that, thanks for sharing.
The way she seems to have zealously taken on her role in DOS, indicates that there’s something deeply wrong with her. That her “collateral” reportedly includes something about abuse within her family of origin is a real red flag to me; children from abusive environments unfortunately often go on to become abusers themselves, treating others as objects to manipulate.
Keith preyed on the weaknesses in women (and men). Men only becasue he wanted to make sure they didn’t get in his way of sleeping with and controlling the women. IF what S. Sousi Jr says is correct, then AM was a sitting duck for KR.
Max:
The sorry truth is that Allison Mack lied by telling women that they were joining a female empowerment group but instead delivered those women into female sexual slavery.
And Allison Mack knew damned well what she was doing when she lied to those women.
Allison Mack practiced Fraud against these women
Allison Mack betrayed these women.
Max, in Dante’s Inferno the deepest pit in hell is reserved for those who engage in betrayal.
It is no accident that the brand burned into Sarah Edmondson’s flesh contains the initials KRAM.
Sarah is marked as athe property of Keith Raniere and ALLISON MACK.
Let’s go through through some of your misconceptions:
1. “Allison never branded anyone”
For that matter neither did Keith Raniere brand anyone.
In a conspiracy case one need not be present for all of the crimes.
Alison Mack was in charge of the DOS sex slave operations on behalf of Raniere.
Both are guilty.
And Allison Mack admitted in the New York Times Magazine to conceiving the idea pf branding.
And the women did not consent to the branding.
Consent given as the result of fraud and lies is NULL AND VOID.
2. “Was she ever paid specifically for anything relating to sex? Was she paid for anything in DOS at all?”
Allison Mack’s payment was that she rose up higher in the NXIVM hierarchy.
For her work in NXIVM DOS became more powerful within the cult.
That alone is enough to say that Allison Mack materially benefited from the sex slavery.
Material benefit does not require a cash payment.
The law is designed to cover any type of benefit.
Moreover, there is reason to believe that Allison Mack had sexual relations with her slaves.
The slave interviewed by Frank Parlato said as much.
As their Master Allison Mack had the benefit of being able to demand sex with her slaves.
That is a material benefit for Allison Mack.
3. “I could even picture Allison pressuring others to have sex with him, believing it to be for their benefit.”
Allison Mack was more than a wing man or wing woman.
A wing man says, “My friend Keith over there would like to meet you. He’s an interesting guy.”
Allison Mack acted as a Pimp compelling women to engage in sex with either Keith
Raniere or herself.
Allison Mack used fraud, coercion and blackmail to compel women to engage in sex.That is not a wing man.
That is a pimp.
Allison Mack is a Pimp.
Moreover, Allison Mack collected blackmail information to take away women’s freedom of choice.
If the women refuse Allison Mack’s orders or leave the cult, that blackmail could be released to the women’s detriment.
The mere collection of blackmail information is in itself a crime.
Wing men don’t collect blackmail.
Allison Mack is a blackmailer and extortionist.
4, “whether DOS members were aware of what they were participating in.”
Irrelevant.
One can be a victim of a crime without knowing it.
You can be a victim of a computer hacking and never know it.
5. “But so far, what I’ve gotten is that she bullied one or two people (adults) into sex.”
Allison Mack herself put the number of women in DOS at closer to 150.
One woman would be one too many.
Max, perhaps you did not see a sex trafficking operation in NXIVM DOS but the FBI sure as hell did.
6. “And if branding was the crime, Dr. Danielle Roberts, who did the actual branding, would have been charged.”
In my opinion Dr. Roberts should be charged.
But the fact that she is not does not absolve Allison Mack of her crimes.
“It just pisses me off that the DOJ charged her so much more harshly than anyone else in DOS.”
Ringleaders always get charged more.
7. “Allison probably got bullied into sex as well.”
Read Catherine Oxenberg’s book “Captive” where she describes a social event at NXIVM where Allison Mack is the Queen of the Ball getting first dibs on Keith Raniere before all of the women get a French kiss from the Vanguard.
Watch the horrible video where Allison Mack almost breaks out in tears for the honor of talking to Raniere.
Or the birthday video where Allison Mack is crying real tears of her infinite devotion to Raniere.
Allison Mack is a True Believer.
8. “her desire to help people overcome fears or whatever.”
Read Pea Onyu’s posts and comments to see what Raniere taught his female followers including Allison Mack.
I would not call those ideas self help.
Lastly I will tell you that Allison Mack suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
That is a real medical disorder and I have written a piece describing in detail Allison Mack’s narcissism.
Narcissist Personality
Disorder is marked by:
1.Lack of Empathy towards others.
2. Lack of Boundaries in personal behavior
3. A craving for adoration.
Narcissistic personality disorder
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662
Allison Mack is easy to manipulate but that does not absolve her of her many crimes.
They are all adults and all should be punished for the crimes they committed. If they aren’t punished, then others could claim the same thing. That’s not how the law works, and it shouldn’t work that way. This case is one of many that will be a deterrent reminder, especially in a RICO situation.
My answer to Max. You have not seen the full evidence in this case. All you see is what is published in the media. Having worked in a DA office, I can tell you about 10% of the evidence is what you are seeing. Even after trial, if there is one, you will never see all the evidence.
The DOJ decision is based on real evidence they have against someone. DOJ is not wasting resources with flimsy evidence.
Remember Allison cries because she knows everything she did. We are guessing.
Mack is no more than a psycho criminal.
I believe that is what each woman thought. This filthy man has had a lot practice in deceiving decent strong intelligent women. He reaps all the benefits while they practice humility, discipline and pushing past fears to accelerate the mental and physical health of women and try to understand the genders better to bring about equality while being manipulated for their commitment to loyalty and hard work. THEY worked long hours, THEY went without sleep THEY followed restrictive diets. HE fleeced everyone and sought to ruin reputations of people willing to give it their all.
I’m guessing they have the evidence as to why they “charged her so much more harshly than anyone else in DOS”.
Natashka, I tried explaining to Max that the FBI usually charges ringleaders more harshly in my new comment.
Precisely. It’s not too hard to fathom why. I think Max’s over sympathy toward Alison should be used elsewhere. Like the traumatised ladies with her initials branded on them.
You’re right.
Trials should be about vindicating the rights of victims, not about making criminals feel good about themselves.
Trials are about getting a measure of justice against those who break laws. How does one vindicate the right of a murder victim to live?
Natashka@&Shadowstate,
You are both trying to explain DOJ’s motivations to a Caucasian Sultan of Six.
Good luck to the both of you!
Plus I think Max is a troll.
Just a random thought.
Could it be that “Max” is a version of “Macks”?
Shadowstate,
I am thinking the same thing.
I never dreamed that there are so many people who have taken up “trolling” as a hobby on such a levels.
The Frankreport is actually the first website I have ever commented/posted on other than posting a question on a programing/technology website.
On Facebook/Instagram I post picture and tap a like ocasionally. On Facebook I have probably made no more than 20-30 comments, maybe even less.
The somewhat newish Web/internet culture is strange.