A reader with the moniker ‘Max” wrote, “I’m curious about the motion to dismiss the sex trafficking charges. Sex trafficking, as I understand it, is basically prostitution, except no one here was paid for sex. There needs to be an exchange of value right? And a pat on the head from Vanguard is pretty worthless in my opinion.”
By Clicky Eight
A pat on the head from Vanguard isn’t ‘worthless’ when Vanguard is holding blackmail material on you or your family — therefore pleasing him becomes coercive and mandatory.
Likewise, granting women ‘special status’, ‘promotions’ or ‘stripes’ (or other organizational benefits) in exchange for either sex or for procuring sex with other women — that’s not legal either, regardless of whether actual monetary currency is being exchanged.
If you think that earning stripes and getting plum assignments/positions within NXIVM is ‘worthless’ then you’re not viewing the situation from the point of view of the women. If the women really viewed that stuff as ‘worthless’ then they wouldn’t have continued with NXIVM in the first place and would have simply quit. Remember, these women are devoting their ENTIRE LIVES to NXIVM and their ‘status’ within the organization meant more to them than their own families did — since most of them alienated family members to be with NXIVM. Most of them shit on their families to do Keith’s bidding.
Keith’s bidding became their whole world, It became something worth more than gold or diamonds to these women.
Also, importing young women illegally from other countries for sexual favors isn’t worthless, nor is it legal, regardless of whether monetary currency is exchanged.
Women were imported from Mexico for sex and/or other nefarious activities within NXIVM (like computer hacking) — and they were ‘controlled’ by Keith via the threat of being deported or by having other blackmail material held over their heads. That’s not legal either.
You need to just have faith that the government understands what elements of each charge need to be proven.
Was going to write this at the end of comments, but typically the comments went from normal to attack mode. Give flowers and Heidi the courtesy of posting without disrespect. If it wasn’t directed at you mind your own business.
On collateral, it wasn’t just the initial collateral, it was ongoing. Every single month 150 women had to either make up a heinous lie about themselves or a person close to them that could destroy reputations and lives.
Imagine the pressure of deciding who to ruin this month. Or telling real secrets, how would the one collecting the collateral know the difference? I’ve tried to put myself in this mindset and I felt sick just thinking about it. I would be trapped, as we’ve read if the collateral wasn’t damaging enough(and who made this decision-Vangaurd), they had to come up with worse. What a sick mind it takes to do this and then use them as fuck toys?
Any person who gave collateral was put in this roller coaster. Never knowing who saw what and when something you wrote would be released if you didn’t please any of your masters.
And some don’t call this rape.
STFU Anne. You’re not the boss, you’re just another bossy b!tch. I’ll make whatever comment I want to and who I want to direct it towards. It’s called the First Amendment. Look it up.
Ironically, the point you are making is also the point that the defense will make: that everyone was a free agent AND everyone received something of value!
Everyone was a willing participant because they got something of value whether be sex, advancement within Nexium or a recognition from Keith. All interactions happen within the context of value exchanges and it is up to each responsible individual to negotiate for himself what he can for himself. There are no victims here, only willing participants who each choose their own lives.
Yes, even the women getting branded chose it. They could have said “no” from the very beginning and not entered into a contract to be branded.
I don’t think criminal enterprises are considered in the context of value exchanges, or any gang member, pimp, slave driver, could fashion an argument in which the victim could be said to gain from their exploitation? In fact, the only way criminal enterprises flourish is because they have access to a whole lot of marks whose reasons for becoming involved in criminality hinge on the fact they hope to gain more than they previously had: more money, more security, a roof over their head, a sense of belonging, etc. these reasons always surface when for example, a kid gets arrested for a gang/prostitution related crime.I never heard of a pimp avoiding justice because they ‘housed, clothed and fed’ their marks/targets/victims.
Double A, the issue is the blackmailing, that negates any fair value exchange consideration.
The local authorities in New York State worked for the Bronfmans.
The NDNY and the WDNY worked for the Bronfmans
Thank God for the EDNY
Thanks Clicky! Good read and it cleared a lot of things up for me.
Thank you for clearing that up, Clicky! I think it’s something many of us were confused about.
Speak for yourself, Heinous Heidi.
I stopped reading Franks blog for a few days, and come back to see you being abusive again. Get a different obsession please.
I agree with “lilikoin”. I honestly don’t understand the reason why Frank allows Scott to comment anymore I’d even be surprised if this comment is even published. Some of my direct replies to Scott’s comments have not been posted.
Frank, would you please keep removing the 14 year old girlie comments? It’s really taking a toll on the quality comments here.
Looks like you were confused as well. I wasn’t. STFU.
Since you’re behaving nicely today, Clicky, I’ll ask you this, in regards to your post-
Why are you putting your faith in the government to do the right thing NOW? I think that so many people have been screwed over by NXIVM, or by other facets of organized crime, for so long, and have not recieved any help from the government, that now they have lost faith. Yet you seem to believe that the government has finally woken up to what was going on….
Goood grief lady, they arrested and extradited Raniere. They arrested Bronfman and Salzman and Mack. That is how they are now doing the right thing. The feds did this, not fucking New York who covered for these criminals. Not British Columbia and certainly not Mexico. The feds did it and not under your precious worthless as tits on a bull Obammy regime.
Smoke
You sound like a total asshole….not just sort-of-an asshole, or a bit af a dickhead, but about as assholish as an asshole can be.
And don’t now whine & throw another little temper tantrum, and cry about me bullying you, asshole. Just read your post to me…..and don’t pretend you don’t understand that you are being a bully there.
Flowers you don’t just sound….you are a whiny cunt who is ignorant of the realities of life. I enjoy your attempts at bullying thou. It shows what an ignorant hypocrite you are. Now go peek out your curtains the boogy man is out there.
I agree.
Flowers and reality are estranged.
Flowers, the government is often late to the party. But when they arrive, they tend to grind down and destroy the target. If more people had spoken up sooner, the government probably would have taken out NXIVM sooner. But most people are cowards, so this is what we get, because that’s what cowards deserve. It’s the same with other MLM scams that are much larger than NXIVM ever was.
Yes, Scott, I agree. But the point I was trying to make is why does Clicky sound so confident that that the feds have a strong case, as he seems very sure, as though he has more info than the rest of us do.
And I wouldn’t be surprised(at this point) if he actually does.
Smoke- go smoke up and chill out. I wasnt whining about anything, I was stating a fact, the fact being that you ARE an asshole.
And “THOU” art the bully….under all your many aliases.
Aw flowers ya whiny cunt, you are too stupid to see even the obvious evidence. The feds have so much more. Put your vibrator in your pie hole and go back into your make believe world
Flowers, have you read the indictments and been keeping up on the Frank Report and other media stories? Are you aware the Feds have FAR more information about NXIVM than anyone else?
Flowers what are you insinuating with this
But the point I was trying to make is why does Clicky sound so confident that that the feds have a strong case, as he seems very sure, as though he has more info than the rest of us do.
And I wouldn’t be surprised(at this point) if he actually does.
Is there another ‘conspiracy afoot?
Depends what you mean by conspiracy. …..if someone is hiding their identity, is that a conspiracy?
What an odd thing to say. Almost everyone commenting here is hiding their identity. Do you believe Clicky is “on the inside” of this investigation?
Hiding your identity is not the definition of conspiracy.