A reader took the trouble to rebut – line by line – Susan Dones’ recent defense of Kristin Kreuk. Because Susan is a veteran anti-NXIVM fighter, and tough enough to take a rebuttal or two, I have no hesitation to publish what is now a second rebuttal to her original guest view. The first rebuttal was published earlier today.
Some may think this is a lot of copy to waste on a topic of marginal interest in the overall NXIVM case – the role of Kristin Kreuk in NXIVM – and my role in covering her role – but since it speaks to some other larger issues – such as the role of journalism and what is “fake news”, it is indeed a topic of interest, at least to me. I also am interested in the role of celebrity in speaking out against injustice versus mere virtue signaling and, of course, in learning if Kristin Kreuk had a deeper role than she claims – and if she is either a perpetrator or perhaps even a victim of the Bronfman-Raniere crime organization known generally as NXIVM.
Here is a readers view of Susan’s view – line-by-line. Susan’s original comments are labeled SD and are in bold and the rebuttal is labeled AR and is in regular font.
Susan, methinks you protest too much.
SD Frank, the Kristin Kreuk storyline is getting old and where is your PROOF?
AR: Frank never claimed he was proving anything.
SD Frank, you have been accused of several serious crimes that if you don’t cut a deal with the FEDS, you are going to trial within the next six months.
AR: What does that have to do with Kristin Kreuk?
SD Don’t you want the FEDS to prove their case against you?
AR: Of course, but that is a court of law, this website is a court of public opinion.
SD Is speculation enough for them to convict you?
AR: See above.
SD This Kristin Kreuk storyline is the makings of a HALLOWEEN STORY because Frank, you are on a WITCH HUNT.
AR: I prefer the term “WITCH TROLLING.”
SD Stories like this are an attempt to SHIFT the blame onto people who were never involved in NXIVM’s criminal organization and takes the focus off those who are involved.
AR: How is it that you are aware of every single crime that NXIVM ever committed?
SD Reporting in this type of manner is a classic NXIVM strategy and one of the publications referred to as Rag magazines.
AR: What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
SD Frank, you have been told by several Ex-NXIVM members, that the theory you are attempting to prove, never happened.
AR: Frank isn’t trying to prove anything, he’s merely providing information.
SD It’s this kind of behavior that Ex-NXIVM members have stopped talking with you sharing information or even coming to the Frank Report.
AR: So what? The case is now in the hands of the Federal court system.
SD Frank, you continue to accuse innocent people of wrongdoing.
AR: No, he’s just providing information.
SD There are many who have, so why not focus on them?
AR: Provide Frank information on them, I’m sure Frank would be happy to report it.
SD Frank where is your proof that his woman, her friends in the story (other than Allison Mack) and Girls by Design ever recruited young girls into NXIVM?
AR: Frank doesn’t need proof, this is a court of public opinion, remember?
SD You have shown none.
AR: What is your point?
SD Where is the proof (except Allison Mack) that they were involved in any illegal/immoral activities with NXIVM’s illegal enterprise?
AR: There was NXIVM training to not pay income taxes, did you follow that training?
SD Frank, you and your co-conspirators (most likely NXIVM trolls) are stringing some facts together in an ATTEMPT to make up something that you have not shown any proof happened.
AR: Frank is providing dots for others to connect.
SD SO, FRANK, WHERE’S IS YOUR PROOF and what is your beef with the woman?
AR: How many times are you going to ask the same question?
SD I think you write about this woman, and your fictional story about her intent, because it gets you the most clicks on your blog.
AR: What’s wrong with clicks?
SD This storyline also gets you a lot of comments, but it’s mostly just people who are having arguments.
AR: Compared to the number of readers, the number of commenters is minuscule. People enjoy arguing, and it gets more clicks. What’s wrong with that?
SD Is this the motive behind you posting about this woman and this storyline?
AR: Obviously, it’s to get people to contribute more information, to fill in the blanks.
SD Hanging on to this kind of story is why most EX-NX ’s have stopped talking with you.
AR: Frank doesn’t need those people.
SD Now, you’re stuck with NXIVM trolls to give you (mis)information.
AR: As opposed to Ex-NXIVM people providing misinformation?
SD If you have real proof that GBD was recruiting young girls into NXIVM, show your proof or move on.
AR: Do you honestly think there was a different motive? Seriously?
SD Where are the enrollments?
AR: We don’t know, ask that question to the FBI and DOJ.
SD Where are the outraged parents saying this woman enrolled her child into being a sex-slave to Raniere?
AR: Most people are too embarrassed to come forward, it’s the (almost) perfect crime.
SD Here are the facts as known:
AR: According to you.
SD • Was she in NXIVM? – yes, we all know that to be true
AR: Wow, we agree on something. Pop the champagne cork.
SD • Were all the people in the story a part of NXIVM? – yes that is known to be true
AR: Two for two, we’re on a roll.
SD • Was GBD a NXIVM plot to bring in young girls? – This you have not proved EVER
AR: Patience, the trial will start in a few months, or within a year or two.
SD • GBD was in the making before any of these women took a NXIVM course – that is a fact
AR: Do YOU have proof of that? You insist on having proof from Frank, where is your proof?
SD Did NXIVM attempt to take advantage of this woman for recruitment?- yes.
AR: Wow, another Bingo winner.
SD • Fact is, NXIVM tried to use everyone who walked through their doors to recruit people.
AR: I think you just proved Frank’s point, way to go!
SD NXIVM had an ‘enroll three people’ into the same course and get yours free, or within three months; you’d get a refund of the price you paid.
AR: Did you know anybody that actually did that?
SD This was only for the 5 or 16 day course.
AR: Isn’t that the “bread and butter” of NXIVM?
SD If a person thought the course was good for them, of course, they would tell their friends.
AR: And if they thought the course was trash, they kept quiet because they were ashamed they lost money, right?
SD • Fact is, people could become salespeople for NXIVM enrollments and make money enrolling others.
AR: What’s your point? Isn’t that how a lot of MLMs work?
SD • Fact is, most people never saw or were part of the NXIVM criminal enterprise.
AR: There were lots of parts of the NXIVM criminal enterprise, which ones are you referring to? I like the tax evasion part, people said it was taught and the IRS loves to go after tax cheaters, because there is usually lots of documented evidence against them.
SD People like myself, and Kristin Kreuk, thought we were in a training program that improved lives.’
AR: Did you ever cheat on your taxes? How about KK?
SD • Fact is, the training did improve people’s lives, The 16 day course helped me.
AR: Which course taught how to cheat on taxes? Did the money saved improve your life and the lives of others? How does that “improvement” feel now?
SD I have people who even now tell me they were glad they took the basic training.
AR: Just because NXIVM had a silver lining doesn’t mean it wasn’t mostly feces.
SD Why do you think people stuck around?
AR: How about because they were love bombed and were trying to recruit others to get their courses for free?
SD It wasn’t to be part of a criminal enterprise; we saw improvements in our lives and those that took the basic coursework.
AR: You keep using the “basic” coursework. Wasn’t NXIVM also providing never-ending advanced courses as well?
SD • Fact is, the Cult aspect of NXIVM and the criminal/immoral enterprise was very well hidden and protected by Raniere and his inner circle.
AR: Yes, that’s how most MLM scams work, keep the bad stuff hidden.
SD Raniere is a mastermind at hiding his illegal/immoral behavior.
AR: He’s actually pretty small compared to large MLM scams, such as Herbalife.
SD Is she famous? – You have to define famous.
AR: Famous enough to attract others. If she was very famous, she would have too much to lose and not even get involved.
SD To this day, I don’t see her on any of the actors’ magazines or TV show interviewing like many of whom I would call a famous actor doing.
AR: NXIVM didn’t want to draw too much attention, just enough to attract more people so they could scam them.
SD During her time with NXIVM, only those who watched Smallville knew of her as an actor before NXIVM made a big deal about it.
AR: Or those who were told she was on Smallville.
SD NXIVM was good at making certain people “a big deal.”
AR: Of course they were, that’s how a scam operates.
SD Is she to blame for doing horrible things because she is an actor? – no.
AR: No, she is to blame for doing horrible things because she’s a human being, her occupation has nothing to do with it.
SD NXIVM made many people a “big deal” — actors, certain business people, those with positions in government, ex-president’s sons, daughters – people like the Bronfman sisters and anyone they could use as a showcase.
AR: Yes, and it attracted a lot of people into their scam.
SD Isn’t this what all companies that depend on sales do to enhance their income streams?
AR: Yes, but most companies didn’t teach tax fraud, burn the founder’s initials into pubic regions while blackmailing them, sex traffic, rape underage girls, etc. Do you see the difference?
SD You do it all the time with how many people come to your blog and from what countries.
AR: See above, does Frank do those other things that NXIVM did?
SD You even say things such as “as a highly reliable individual, who has provided me with” this information.
AR: So what? Can you prove otherwise?
SD Frank, you did it in this storyline with “Here are some comments and links sent by a reader, followed by my thoughts on the topic.”
AR: Do you prefer Frank to be boring? Would that help the readership level?
SD You even call her the “most famous member.”
AR: Who is more famous?
SD Well, that’s just your opinion, and a way to sensationalize your theory in an attempt to SELL it to your readers.
AR: Isn’t that what marketing is all about?
SD Enrollment in itself isn’t illegal or immoral when you think you’re enrolling for a training course.
AR: Agreed, it’s all the other things that come with it that make it illegal and immoral.
SD What Allison Mack, Lauren/Nancy Salzman, Keith Raniere, Clare Bronfman and some others were enrolling into was much different than taking or supporting what you think is a good self-help program.
AR: No argument there. Which “different” things did you do?
SD What media outlet reports on her besides THE FRANK REPORT?
AR: There are several, why do you ask?
SD Frank, you are the one pointing to a PLOT you have not proven nor have you given us any factual proof to back up your story.
AR: Other media outlets do the same thing.
SD Is it too bad not all your readers understand the facts you string together don’t make this woman into the person you keep accusing her of being.
AR: The readers are grown-ups, they can do their own research and make up their own minds.
SD There were over 7,500 people who took NXIVM related course.
AR As stated above, that’s a very small number in MLMland.
SD Were they all involved with criminal activities?
AR Probably not, but that’s not the point.
SD • Fact – No
AR So what?
SD If she was involved in something shady, don’t you think NXIVM would have held that over her head as collateral so she couldn’t leave?
AR Perhaps they held it over her to keep her quiet, or she knew that if she spoke out, she would be sued by the bottomless pit of money the Bronfmans had.
SD It’s how they entrapped their goons in the first place.
AR So it makes sense they would keep doing it, right?
SD They are attempting to get this kind of collateral over anyone and were doing it long before DOS.
AR Blackmail before DOS, that sounds like another crime.
SD NXIVM encouraged people to not pay your taxes, bring some cash across the border, hack into people’s computers.
AR Thanks for confirming those crimes.
SD Not everyone became a goon for them.
AR They didn’t need everyone to become a goon, only enough of them to keep the scam running.
SD Once NXIVM had their collateral, they had them hooked, and they could never leave.
AR Or they could leave and keep quiet, right?
SD I left when I found out about Keith Raniere’s crimes and immoral behavior.
AR I thought you said people couldn’t leave, and you just proved that they (you) did.
SD Raniere was sleeping with multiple women, and he and his gal pals had the plot to manipulate women into doing this.
AR Yes, that’s called a crime, namely blackmail.
SD NXIVM Criminal Enterprise (NCE) was not paying taxes and was trying to get others not to pay theirs.
AR I’m sure the IRS is already on this trail.
SD NCE brought large amounts of cash across the Mexican border and not claiming it as income.
AR Do you have proof of this, or just another claim like you accuse Frank of doing?
SD What do you do with that much cash? – you have to launder it.
AR Another crime, I’m sure the FBI/DOJ is hot on that trail already.
SD At the time I left, DOS wasn’t happening.
AR But other crimes were happening, so what is your point?
SD When I left in 2009, I shut my center down, told as many people who would listen to me about what I found out, and talked to the authorities.
AR Good for you, that was the right thing to do.
SD What did that get me?
AR It got you doing the right thing.
SD I got sued by NXIVM, the authorities did nothing, and NXIVM held communities’ meetings attempting to hatch the same kind of plot your doing with this woman.
AR That’s how most MLMs work, why do you think your situation should be any different?
SD NXIVM got a certain amount of people to believe that I was a bad person and was lying about what I found out.
AR See above.
SD They shifted the blame to me in order to make themselves look good.
AR See above.
SD Frank, you used the same game theory NXIVM is using by trying to make it look as if this woman has done something bad.
AR Frank didn’t sue her, that is a very significant difference.
SD She is not obligated to say anything other than what she has said.
AR And Frank isn’t obligated to stop talking about what she might know.
SD Knowing what NXIVM was doing with people who left and spoke out about them, I don’t blame her for not saying anything, if she did know anything.
AR I do, she could have more influence in helping people not get scammed by NXIVM and she didn’t do it.
SD Because so many people who were actually a part of NXIVM no longer talk with you, one has to wonder if your being fed information from NXIVM trolls?
AR As stated above, this is in the hands of the Federal court system and NXIVM people are known liars anyway.
SD Do you keep repeating this storyline for clicks on your blog.
AR Was that a question? If so, the answer is yes. The more people who know about NXIVM the better.
SD To date, you have not shown any proof this woman is guilty of anything other than being a part of a program she thought was a good thing.
AR So what?
SD Those who stayed with NXIVM after things were exposed, bought NXIVM’s stories about how it was other people attempting to harm NXIVM and what they were saying was lies.
AR Please restate this sentence, I don’t know what you’re trying to say.
SD Frank, you are attempting the same game by stringing some facts together and make it a reality.
AR How do you come to that conclusion?
SD The fact you are putting your facts into a YAHTZEE CUP, shaking it up and pouring out a story does not make it REALITY; This storyline is old and is just plain fiction.
AR That is one talented YAHTZEE CUP, it comes up with complete sentences and storylines every single time. Where there is smoke, there’s fire.
SD A journalist would not write such a story without “fact checking” their story with people who know the REAL FACTS.
AR Do you feel left out? Do you really think you know everything that went on in NXIVM such that you can call balls and strikes? You said Raniere was good at hiding things, so that appears doubtful.
SD Frank, you not acting like a real journalist, too many people have told you what your attempting to put together is not REALITY.
AR The current day “real journalists” make up much more fake news stories that Frank could dream up in his wettest night.