Part 6 of the secretly recorded phone conversation in August 2017 between Toni Zarattini and Emiliano Salinas.
Emiliano Claims the alleged extortionists are asking for $10 million
Salinas has claimed that NXIVM and he himself are being extorted. He has named only Mark Vicente and Sarah Edmondson as part of the sinister plot. Salinas told Toni Zarattini that he thought Toni was in on the extortion plot and that is why he took certain legal action against Toni.
Emiliano Salinas [ES:] No, I understand. I am telling you what I heard [about Toni being in on the extortion plot] before speaking with you. The pieces of the puzzle that I have is, here is a group of people who are extorting us and have threatened us with very specific things. Then they have enlisted another group of people to carry out these threats. Of course, curiously, they put out their hands [for money]. Because we know that those who are carrying out the threats are actively destroying our reputation and it’s Frank Parlato.
TZ: Yes, the one from Frank Report?
ES: Yes, the one from Frank Report, then directly he is destroying, but Frank Report is receiving information from Mark [Vicente] and from Sara [Edmondson] and from Barbara Bouchey [she left NXIVM in 2009] and from other people. Then they hide their hand and we have armed the chain from which other people are carrying out their threats.
TZ: Ok, ok.
ES: And then you [Toni] start doing the same actions [in Mexico] that they are doing in the United States, but in Mexico. Do you know what the picture looks like on my side? Now you are the executioner in Mexico. That is part of the reason why I called you yesterday and part of the reason why I wanted to explain my perspective. I do not want you to become part of the extortion without knowing it.
ES: Because I can have the perspective that it is, if you take this to a judge, right? Well, in one of those [criminal complaints], the judge says it’s A plus B plus C plus D; so, what is going on here? And because I intuited, I do not know, sometimes it’s a vibe, sometimes it’s what I sensed – that you did not have all the information. So I said, ‘no, I do not want to put Toni in a problem [by making a criminal complaint against him]. That he gets into a problem without knowing it and without wanting it. He does not really have the full perspective. It’s all the information about what’s happening [the claimed extortion] and that he [Toni] is unknowingly instrumental in an extortion. An extortion is being investigated and not only in Mexico but also in several countries, right? [Ed. note: I have serious doubts about this claim] So I know that you are not extorting anyone and right now what you are telling me I understand perfectly. I even understand the intention with which you have done all these things [warning people about NXIVM], but even with that good intention, if you end up being instrumental in an extortion then it’s good that we can stop this immediately and it’s good that we can redirect it, because you’re not an extortionist are you? (Emiliano laughs). And I know it.
TZ: Well, of course not.
ES: So, if you understand what comes to me from what we started to see, then that’s why all the antennas stick up. I’ll tell you an additional thing, and I’ll tell you because we’re talking transparently. Someone told us that you spoke directly with Barbara Bouchey or that you had been in a conversation where Barbara Bouchey was on a conference call.
TZ: That I had been in a conference call with her?
ES: Yes, that some people spoke to you, several people, and mentioned your name and that of Barbara Bouchey in the same conversation. That’s what came to us.
TZ: Ok, that is false.
ES: Ok then for us, [we heard] you were not only in communication with Mark and with Sara; we got to think that you were also in direct communication with Barbara Bouchey. That already speaks of a [extortionist] group, right? Well that group exists, and for you to belong to that group–.
TZ: I saw it when I went to [see] your lawyer, [Toni went to visit Salinas’s lawyer] about this shit and there is the name of Susan Dones and he mentioned the name of Toni Natalie. I know Susan Dones and I know Barbara Bouchey. I know her because they were in the [NXIVM] organization. Toni Natalie I have only heard she was Keith’s girlfriend and they [the NXIVM lawyers] started to mention to me people whom I really do not know who they are, dude.
ES: No, surely you do not know everyone. No, because I’m going to tell you this is much bigger and it’s good that they gave you all that information. Because it has nothing to do with you. I want to get you out of this [you are] in the middle of this knot because it is a terrible knot that we have here. We have been trying to solve it for several years, against people who are extorting us for millions of dollars
TZ: Yes, [NXIVM/Emiliano’s lawyer] he told me they are asking for 10 million dollars.
TZ: They are asking for 10 million dollars
ES: They are [asking for] several million dollars. Why should I give you the [exact] amount?
TZ: I’m telling you what your lawyer told me.
ES: Well, so he told you, then, and suddenly you stop inadvertently. Right now, I’m listening to you and you know what was going on in my head? ‘Shoot, dude, with the best intentions, you stood in the line of fire.’
TZ: Yes crossfire.
ES: And I’m going to tell you one thing too. I think it’s very crappy on their [the NXIVM enemies] part because I think none of them mentioned anything to you that if you did certain things it might even get perceived that you were helping extortion.
TZ: Nobody has said absolutely nothing of that. The flag of Vasco [former NXIVM member], of Sarah, of Nippy [Anthony Ames, Sarah’s husband], I tell you the flag of outside of this is, ‘Here we are here to help you, dude. What do you need?’ and ‘This is what happened to me. This is what I saw. This is what I lived’ and that’s it, that is the flag I perceived.
ES: Yes, but that’s half of the movie, because I can tell you this is what I experienced, right? Suppose I tell you that such a person cheated on me, right? You say ’shit what the fuck!’ But what if I tell you such a person cheated on me and now I’m thinking how to kill him.
TZ: It’s different.
ES: It’s very different, right? I do not know if you would still like to walk with me if I told you the whole story. Then they are telling you what happened to them, but they are not telling you what they are doing [extorting]. And by not giving you the whole movie, well they put you in a situation of much disadvantage to make decisions.
TZ: I agree.
ES: So, well, it does not seem cool to me. This is where we are. Look I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you how I found out, because I found out about all this, shoot, practically while my children were being born.
TZ: Ah, at [the time of] the Coach Summit.
ES: Well, I did not go to Coach Summit because my children were being born and I learned all these things by remote control, Anyway, what did I conclude, I am interested to know what conclusion you get from everything you have lived in these last three months. Let’s suppose you had not talked to me. What conclusion did you get from everything that all the people with whom you spoke from what they told you? What is your conclusion of the 12 years that you were in ESP and everything that you lived and everything that is happening as to how you see it today after all this.
TZ: Everything to me, or everything I have explained to my parents, Emiliano, because they asked me, ‘why, after so many years that we have been against this?’. Since I entered [NXIVM], they [Toni’s parents] have never liked it.
ES: I know. I was at your ranch. I saw your dad.
TZ: How is it possible that for so long I —
ES: Mark and I were at your ranch.
TZ: ‘How is it possible that so much time has passed,’ [his parents wanted to know] and I explained [to them] what it is. Damn, I never saw anything bad, dude, never man. In fact, when I went to the singing classes with Keith, it never crossed my mind that Keith went to bed with any of them and dude, at that point, I say, ‘OK, it’s people with whom you share part of your life and there they are with him [sexually] because they are’. Well it has nothing wrong, dude, nothing is wrong, nothing, but the only thing is the secret part, the only bad thing for me, Emiliano, was this ending, those secrets, and then having spoken with people who have had [sexual] relationships lately with Keith and even a young girl dude. [Ed. Note: this may be statutory rape]. It’s like, I tell you, what for? Really? But look at the end; it’s all the context, the combination [of things] and the ‘shut up, don’t say a word,’ and all the group of lies. Dude, is just that, because from before all that, Emiliano, I’m going to tell you, I did not see anything bad, dude.